The Voynich Ninja - Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

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Quote:Stellar wrote:
I have solved the Voynich Manuscript as demonstrated via a cipher and in this video even a kid knows about letter number ciphers. What is a disgrace is you all bury it because of ego! Demo begins at 4:08 minutes about a letter number cipher.

Ego has nothing to do with it, it's all about method and results.

Your method is questionable at every stage, you haven't even proven that your designation of numbers-to-specific-VMS-glyphs is correct. If we shuffle the letters and numbers chart, we can get words out of that too, which means you haven't justified your positioning of the glyphs. You haven't even considered that some of the glyphs might be ligatures or nulls.

You haven't proven that it's Middle English either. Several forum members have gotten similar results with other languages like Latin or German.

...and of course letter-number ciphers exist, but the video you posted is completely irrelevant because it suggests using numbers as a simple substitution code. It's completely different from what you are doing...

you are using a gematria tradition, a format designed for searching out (or creating) spiritual connections between words through numbers in the days when numbers and letters were expressed with the same characters—the correspondence between numbers and letters was known by all literate people—it wasn't a code. The only "code" part of it was finding the various correspondences and being literate in the first place.

Gematria was not designed as a narrative-text encipherment method and it is not practical to decipher large blocks of text in the manner that you have illustrated. You are adding up the numbers, not doing simple substitution, and then you relate that sum to ANY word that comes to the same sum, a completely subjective process. You've admitted yourself it's a one-way cipher. There's no way to prove that the words YOU are selecting are the words intended.

If you have solved it, as you keep claiming in your books (for which you charge people money), and in your posts, then decode a full page that doesn't have any pictures. If your method is correct, you don't need the pictures.

Again, threads are merged.
Stellar, please stop making new threads when there are no need for them or I will have to warn you again for spamming. Please post all future discussion of your theory in this thread.

(18-03-2017, 07:46 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:Stellar wrote:
I have solved the Voynich Manuscript as demonstrated via a cipher and in this video even a kid knows about letter number ciphers. What is a disgrace is you all bury it because of ego! Demo begins at 4:08 minutes about a letter number cipher.

Ego has nothing to do with it, it's all about method and results.

Your method is questionable at every stage, you haven't even proven that your designation of numbers-to-specific-VMS-glyphs is correct. If we shuffle the letters and numbers chart, we can get words out of that too, which means you haven't justified your positioning of the glyphs. You haven't even considered that some of the glyphs might be ligatures or nulls.

You haven't proven that it's Middle English either. Several forum members have gotten similar results with other languages like Latin or German.

...and of course letter-number ciphers exist, but the video you posted is completely irrelevant because it suggests using numbers as a simple substitution code. It's completely different from what you are doing...

you are using a gematria tradition, a format designed for searching out (or creating) spiritual connections between words through numbers in the days when numbers and letters were expressed with the same characters—the correspondence between numbers and letters was known by all literate people—it wasn't a code. The only "code" part of it was finding the various correspondences and being literate in the first place.

Gematria was not designed as a narrative-text encipherment method and it is not practical to decipher large blocks of text in the manner that you have illustrated. You are adding up the numbers, not doing simple substitution, and then you relate that sum to ANY word that comes to the same sum, a completely subjective process. You've admitted yourself it's a one-way cipher. There's no way to prove that the words YOU are selecting are the words intended.

If you have solved it, as you keep claiming in your books (for which you charge people money), and in your posts, then decode a full page that doesn't have any pictures. If your method is correct, you don't need the pictures.

JKP,

I have decoded 3 paragraphs to Middle English and I believe Geoffrey Chaucer maybe the Author of the VMS. I am using sums of numbers which correspond to Middle English words.

These letters below are from the manuscript by Geoffrey Chaucer, about the Canterbury Tales. They are eerily similar to the writing within the Voynich Manuscript. Here is a link to Chaucer’s original Canterbury Tales. Chaucer was a Judge and considered Duke Lionel a brother. In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the translation is about justice and in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., it's highly political with Duke Lionel's name in it and Chaucer considered the Duke a brother.
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[Image: chaucer-voynich.png?w=840]

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(18-03-2017, 06:32 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
These letters below are from the manuscript by Geoffrey Chaucer, about the Canterbury Tales. They are eerily similar to the writing within the Voynich Manuscript. ..

Clearly, you are not familiar with medieval texts. They are not eerily similar. Gothic cursive (and English varieties of Gothic cursive such as Anglicana) were dominant forms of writing at the time. I have hundreds of samples that resemble the VMS more closely than Chaucer's hand.

Stellar, you want quick results and so you take shortcuts and don't fully investigate things. If you want REAL results, you have to dig wider and deeper and not jump to conclusions or get all excited about the first thing you find. Often if you keep looking, you discover the first thing you "discovered" wasn't what you thought it was.

(18-03-2017, 07:08 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(18-03-2017, 06:32 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
These letters below are from the manuscript by Geoffrey Chaucer, about the Canterbury Tales. They are eerily similar to the writing within the Voynich Manuscript. ..

Clearly, you are not familiar with medieval texts. They are not eerily similar. Gothic cursive (and English varieties of Gothic cursive such as Anglicana) were dominant forms of writing at the time. I have hundreds of samples that resemble the VMS more closely than Chaucer's hand.

Stellar, you want quick results and so you take shortcuts and don't fully investigate things. If you want REAL results, you have to dig wider and deeper and not jump to conclusions or get all excited about the first thing you find. Often if you keep looking you discover the first thing wasn't what you thought it was.

Show your sources of samples that resemble the VMS! Provide a link so I can compare please.

(18-03-2017, 07:11 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Show your sources of samples that resemble the VMS! Provide a link so I can compare please.

I will when I have finished writing them up. It's a huge ongoing task. I've been working on it for years. It takes time to do it well.

(19-03-2017, 02:25 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(18-03-2017, 07:11 PM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Show your sources of samples that resemble the VMS! Provide a link so I can compare please.

I will when I have finished writing them up. It's a huge ongoing task. I've been working on it for years. It takes time to do it well.

That always been your excuse. Waiting with baited breath? As a matter of I have shown a correspondence to Chaucer so you have the rest of you life for this project. I hope I'm not dead before I see it!

If you think every problem can be solved quickly or that flashes of insight will always triumph over in-the-trenches hard work, you are going to be disappointed. It takes both, especially when very bright minds have been working on a problem for many centuries.

I am not making excuses. Some things take time. If everything were easy, we would have solved all the world's problems by now. I will present my data when I have it organized and can find ways to explain it in a lucid manner to an audience with little-to-no-paleographic experience.

(19-03-2017, 04:54 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you think every problem can be solved quickly or that flashes of insight will always triumph over in-the-trenches hard work, you are going to be disappointed. It takes both, especially when very bright minds have been working on a problem for many centuries.

I am not making excuses. Some things take time. If everything were easy, we would have solved all the world's problems by now. I will present my data when I have it organized and can find ways to explain it in a lucid manner to an audience with little-to-no-paleographic experience.

Looking over the Rainbow and hallucinating. I guess you believe the Voynich is in German too and you imply I have not worked hard at this or that its really not my realm. This was not a flash of insight but a concise word for word implication for what the VMS represents. Incidentally the Poll people are taking on Chaucer is funny. I will update poll results every so often to show I'm onto it Middle English.

Current results at the moment:
[Image: tales-test.png]

(19-03-2017, 05:46 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Looking over the Rainbow and hallucinating. I guess you believe the Voynich is in German too.

Don't put words in my mouth, stellar, it's a childish and petulant way to respond. I have never said nor implied that I think the Voynich is in German. I've made it quite clear that I am 65% in the constructed-language camp and I have said that if it is a natural language, it bears more resemblance to Turkic and Asian languages than western European languages in the way the parts are put together.

Stellar wrote: ...and you imply I have not worked hard at this or that its really not my realm.

Stellar, I'm not implying it, I'm saying it. Every comment you have made on this forum regarding medieval languages and paleography indicates that you don't know much or anything about them and that you don't look beyond the first thing you find that resembles something you might be able to use to support your assertions. To make progress, you have to learn to let go of things that aren't working.

I think you DO work hard, but you stubbornly pursue avenues that are built on assumptions. It's work, but it's not productive research. It's theory-building, not data collection. There's a big difference.

The character you posted is typical for its time. Most of Europe, from Scotland to Italy, wrote in Gothic cursive in the 15th century.

Addendum: I grabbed some quick examples from my database to compare to the letters you posted. Most of these are early and mid-15th century. They are from nine different countries, which illustrates how widespread a specific style of writing could be, even in the middle ages when travel was difficult. They also show that the examples you posted are not unique, nor are they especially similar to one another when compared to these additional samples:

Stellar, I hope you were not basing your "hunch" that the text is Middle English because of a perceived similarity between the VMS glyph and the Chaucerian glyph.

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