• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Imagery
  • Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image
• Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 24-08-2016, 01:14 PM

  Heraklysius riding a tiger is always worth sharing.
  
  I'm quite happy with the results of this thread... seems like alle possible missing links have been filled up.

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Sam G > 24-08-2016, 05:23 PM

  (24-08-2016, 09:27 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I haven't looked at bestiaries yet, but here's a parallel for the perspective of the face and placement of the eyes from El Djem, Tunis:
  
  

  
  The weird thing about the VMS Leo is that its head is facing forward, as in the Qasr mosaic image, but its eyes are on the side of its head.  That makes me think the eyes may be a later addition.  Then again, it's the only animal (including humans) in the VMS to have such eyes, which may suggest that those eyes were already in the source that the VMS borrowed from.
  
  Another interesting thing to note about the El Djem mosaics is that, like the VMS, they also contain a calendar beginning in March (which was the case in early Roman times, but pretty old-fashioned by the time these mosaics were made):
  
  
  
  A Wikipedia page that talks a bit about this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 24-08-2016, 08:36 PM

  I must admit I have not devoted much research to various calendars yet. This bit from the wiki seems rather interesting as well:
  "In the earliest Roman calendar, which the Romans believed to have been instituted by Romulus, the ten-month year began with Mars' month"
  
  Is it possible that the VM calendar holds the middle between a ten month system and an optional 12 month one?
  
  
  About the orientation of the VM cat's mouth, I have been pondering the same. One possibility is that, as you say, the eyes have been altered later to meet certain conventions - as we can see in some of the examples, large cats were deliberately shown with wobbly eyes. According to Diane, this was because the direct stare of even a large feline in a picture was seen as something to avoid. This alone would validate the placement of the eyes on the wrong place, be it originally or later.
  
  Another option, however, is illustrated by the following picture, again from North Africa  (A.D. 150-200, Hadrumetum, (now Tunisia)):
  
  
  
  We see how the lion has been given strange, almost sad, unthreatening eyes, but especially how its upper lip appears split and runs all the way up to the nose in a strange way. The depiction of the lion's body and the entire donkey (onager) is more realistic than the lion's face.
  
  All we need to do to make this possibility a bit obvious in the VM feline is add a little nose. Pardon my lack of any skills:
  

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Searcher > 25-08-2016, 08:43 PM

  Do you know that the number of this thread is 666? 
  Blue and black medieval lions:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  As well, another smiling lions and lions with tongue:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Generally, there is nothing surprising.
     

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 25-08-2016, 10:43 PM

  Thread nr. 666, that's quite appropriate. The number of the beast
  
  The image you link as '4.' is interesting. In the top frame, you can see how the 'tree behind cat' motif was adopted into medieval bestiaries.

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 26-08-2016, 09:37 AM

  I recently had an email conversation with a curator at the Getty museum. When I asked her if she knew any parallels for the VM feline, she replied that some of its stylistic properties reminded her of an item in the collection. It is a mosaic of a griffin, "which is said to be from Syria, dated to the 5th or 6th century AD."
  
  
  
  
  
  The "Griffin with wheel" is an older motif, associated with Nemesis, the goddess of divine retribution. The wheel has kind of a "what comes around, goes around" association, symbolizing the restoration of cosmic order.
  

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Sam G > 26-08-2016, 11:06 AM

  (26-08-2016, 09:37 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I recently had an email conversation with a curator at the Getty museum. When I asked her if she knew any parallels for the VM feline, she replied that some of its stylistic properties reminded her of an item in the collection. It is a mosaic of a griffin, "which is said to be from Syria, dated to the 5th or 6th century AD."

  
  Now, that's what I call a helpful and productive use of expert opinion.  Nice!
  
  Check out the tongue on that thing - a perfect match for the VMS Leo.  Clearly my idea that the sharp tongue represents a later, medieval influence is going to have to be scrapped.

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 26-08-2016, 11:20 AM

  I think the tongue is meant as a beak (isn't it?) but my conclusion is the same as yours: it can easily be mistaken or interpreted as a feline's tongue, and the VM feline has clearly been influenced by an image like this one. Leaving aside whether the reinterpretation was accidental or a conscious blending of forms.

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Sam G > 26-08-2016, 11:42 AM

  Hmmm, maybe it is a beak.  That would make sense given the usual iconography of griffins.  Maybe the Leo "tongue" is a beak as well.  But whatever the case, there's clearly a connection of some sort, although I'd say the head shape and of course the tree are still closer to the leopard image. 
  
  

• RE: Qasr mosaic leopard and VMS Leo/August image

  Koen G > 26-08-2016, 01:10 PM

  Yes, I agree that there is a connection. also note the "knob" on top of the beak, which may have helped to reinterpret the shape of the head. 
  
  Additionally, if you remove the second eye of the "Leo", suddenly you notice how the original eye is very similar to that of the griffin's, with the eyelashes (?) on either side, and a very similar positioning. It somehow makes the "beak" connection much easier to see as well. It also makes him a lot angrier
  
  
  
  
  I think there may be another creature in the VM with some griffin blood in its veins:
  
• Next Oldest Next Newest