Searcher > 29-08-2016, 12:13 PM
(29-08-2016, 11:18 AM)Diane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello Searcher,
I think the line of thought might have got a bit distracted. What we were doing were finding examples of creatures which resemble the feline in the manuscript. Everyone has supposed it was meant for a lion, but it doesn't have the characteristics of a lion, so Sam G. and Koen are doing what I've also done - trying not to look for examples of what we suppose it "should be" in sources where we think it "should be" but actually looking for images that exactly match the Voynich creature's appearance.
Interestingly, the animal with the spotted hide that you included is not a lion but was called a "panther" too - just as Dionysius' animal was that we've been talking about.
I know that because in medieval bestiaries, the story went that although the 'panther' was the fastest of animals, if it saw a glass ball and its own reflection in it, it would think the reflection one of its cubs, and stop chasing you.
So actually you did find a sort of "panther" as a near match, just as we have done.
Cheers.
Diane > 29-08-2016, 02:17 PM
ReneZ > 29-08-2016, 02:27 PM
Diane > 29-08-2016, 02:41 PM
Searcher > 29-08-2016, 02:54 PM
(29-08-2016, 02:17 PM)Diane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In this case, I agree with Koen and Sam G. that the protruding tongue and association with the 'palm' (which has been misinterpreted here, I think as the "tuft of the tail") is also highly significant. A creature with a spotted hide, round ears and no mane cannot be made a lion because it better suits our personal aesthetic, can it?
Postscript: I feel it would not be honest to omit mentioning that within Leo is an important formation known as the "tuft of the tail". I don't think that reference was part of the original image, but by the time the forms that we now have reached their present form (more than 16 centuries, I'd say after their first enunciation), the last users might have had that in mind.
Koen G > 29-08-2016, 03:08 PM
Sam G > 29-08-2016, 05:27 PM
Searcher > 29-08-2016, 07:47 PM
Koen G > 29-08-2016, 08:19 PM
Quote:1. I don't see big difference between these: lion, tiger and panther below.
Quote:My second point:
If this image of Leo relates to ancient Greek or Assyrian and so on depictions/ mosaics/ zodiacs, how it relates to the whole VMs Zodiac, including the Sagittarius-crossbowman and the Scorpio-lizard? Does it relate to this Zodiac at all?
Quote:My third point:Nobody has proposed that it can be a transformed medieval Griffin. Or did I miss that?
Why can it be a transformed medieval Griffin
Quote:My fourth point (last, not least):I see what you mean - there appears to be a circle of hairs around the neck. However, these longer hairs are also visible in other parts of the (front) body, lige behind the front leg and on the back under the neck. This seems to indicate more of a rough pelt than an actual full mane.
The Leo of the VMs Zodiac has a mane, but it is too thin and obscure.
Sam G > 29-08-2016, 08:54 PM
(29-08-2016, 07:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is the reason why I don't like to build a theory just on images, all the more, on one image. No image gives 100% proof of an assumption.
In the present case, no image from mosaics or manuscripts fits entirely, and I find it natural. It is difficult to say, which example is better.
Quote:My first point (I hope, it is clear):
I don't see big difference between these: lion, tiger and panther below.
Quote:My second point:
If this image of Leo relates to ancient Greek or Assyrian and so on depictions/ mosaics/ zodiacs, how it relates to the whole VMs Zodiac, including the Sagittarius-crossbowman and the Scorpio-lizard? Does it relate to this Zodiac at all?
Quote:My third point:
Why can it be a transformed medieval Griffin, since You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. presented in medieval bestiaries as a separate beast, still with the head and wings of an eagle.
Quote:My fourth point (last, not least):
The Leo of the VMs Zodiac has a mane, but it is too thin and obscure. I made a contrast of this fragment, so this detail must be visible a little.