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Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

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  • Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript
• Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

• Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  amelkin > Yesterday, 12:22 PM

  I am facing some accusations that the arguments supporting my hypothesis regarding the origin of the Voynich Manuscript are unscientific. This concerns Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript. I present here some devastating counterarguments.
  
    (1) Some researchers consider Dr. Hartlieb too young to be connected to the Voynich Manuscript. I hold a different opinion and provide a rationale. Dr. Hartlieb was born in 1400, not 1410; otherwise, he could not possibly have participated in the Hussite Wars in 1419.
  
    (2) Dr. Hartlieb was the only person at the time who possessed the full spectrum of knowledge covered in the Voynich Manuscript. His works and materials contain drawings and diagrams resembling the manuscript's graphic content. Hartlieb's *Medico-Astrological Calendar* features various scripts and cipher systems incorporating up to 70% of the symbols found in the Voynich Manuscript, including the inscription "Michitonese".
  
    (3) Dr. Hartlieb did not write the Voynich Manuscript himself; instead, he commissioned five scribes to produce up to ten different versions based on his drafts, allowing them the freedom to generate words and drawings within certain parameters. This is evidenced by certain duplicated pages that differ in handwriting and detail (f70v1, f71r, f71v, f72r1). Therefore, there is no need to compare the handwriting of Dr. Hartlieb with that of the individuals who wrote the manuscript. The presence of duplicated pages and diagrams also indicates that the Voynich Manuscript is assembled from several surviving fragments belonging to different versions of the manuscript.
  
    (4) Regarding the depiction of the castle in the manuscript, researchers note that the fortress's general layout - four towers connected by walls, a moat or river, and a central building (*Herrenhaus*) - mirrors the original structure of Blutenburg Castle from that era with remarkable accuracy. This has led to the hypothesis that Hartlieb sketched Blutenburg Castle in his draft, while the scribes added the characteristic crenellations to the walls.

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  ololololo > Yesterday, 12:29 PM

  Could you show me this calendar with the symbols?
  The identification of the castle is actually controversial. It’s too simple to be identified with anything. I can draw a castle just as small, and you’ll find dozens of similar ones all over Europe.

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  amelkin > Yesterday, 12:38 PM

  (Yesterday, 12:29 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could you show me this calendar with the symbols?
  The identification of the castle is actually controversial. It’s too simple to be identified with anything. I can draw a castle just as small, and you’ll find dozens of similar ones all over Europe.

  
  Johannes Hartlieb u.a. (1456): "Medizinischastrologischer Kalender." - BSB Cgm 7958, Muenchen, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Kurzaufnahme einer Handschrift, BSB-ID 991048728419707356, Digitalisiert von Bayerischer Staatsbibliothek am 20.10.2022
  
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  Thank you!

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  DG97EEB > Yesterday, 12:39 PM

  Did you actually look at the many many pages on Hartlieb already on this forum?
  
  Also 1 may be true, but cite your sources; 2 is utterly ridiculous. You cannot say someone was the only person with that knowledge.. we can find dozens more with the same background and education 3 is complete conjecture - unscientific 4 - sources please

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  ololololo > Yesterday, 12:45 PM

  I looked at this book. Out of all the Voynichese symbols, I saw only 8.

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  tavie > Yesterday, 12:47 PM

  You seemed to have racked up a collection of Hartlieb threads. I can't see why they are all justified as separate threads. I'm minded to merge them but that will have to wait till later.

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  amelkin > Yesterday, 12:57 PM

  (Yesterday, 12:39 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Did you actually look at the many many pages on Hartlieb already on this forum?
  
  Also 1 may be true, but cite your sources; 2 is utterly ridiculous. You cannot say someone was the only person with that knowledge.. we can find dozens more with the same background and education 3 is complete conjecture - unscientific 4 - sources please

  
  Links:
  
  Item 1. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  Item 4. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  1. "Jüngste Forschungen des Heimatvereins Möglingen e. V. zur Ortsgeschichte haben sensationelle Ergebnisse erbracht.  Der um 1400 in Möglingen geborene Johannes Hartlieb "war ein studierter Arzt, gelehrter Rat, Diplomat, Hofdichter und frühhumanistischer Übersetzer am Hof der Wittelsbacher in München."
  4. "Bis etwa 1430 bestand die Blutenburg aus dem sogenannten Herrenhaus und war von vier Türmen und einem Wassergraben umgeben."
  
  Thank you!

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  Koen G > Yesterday, 01:39 PM

  Michelle Lewis and Keagan Brewer had a Hartlieb authorship theory. Michelle told my by email that they explored to the fullest if they could find an overlap between Hartlieb's active years and the VM dating. They even contacted a specialist who went over the radiocarbon dating analysis, double checking the calculations. (Turns out the radiocarbon dating range is even more reliable than we amateurs realize!). In the end, they realized the evidence for Hartlieb just wasn't there, and shifted to a Hartlieb-like author.
  
  Hartlieb is one of those authors that intersects with the VM in some ways. That doesn't mean we have to struggle to find ways to make him the author.

• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  nablator > Yesterday, 02:23 PM

  Is this page a roman numerals cipher key? I doubt it because iii, xii and xviii are repeated.
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• RE: Dr. Hartlieb's alleged involvement in the creation of the Voynich Manuscript

  Koen G > Yesterday, 02:40 PM

  (Yesterday, 02:23 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is this page a roman numerals cipher key? I doubt it because iii, xii and xviii are repeated.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  
  I can't read the whole text, but I am certain it is not a cipher. The top text says it's showing both sequences like this to make them better to understand. It must accompany another text, maybe about prognostics. You have to add up the numbers and do some calculations with them.
  
  So basically I think it's about calculating something, not about ciphers.
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