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Voynich's anatomy
- Voynich's anatomy
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RE: Voynich's anatomy
Linda > Yesterday, 05:53 PM
(Yesterday, 11:00 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda, I see you’ve conducted a very large and truly worthwhile study, and I wish you great success in this endeavor!
I have nothing more to say — I can neither prove nor disprove it, because now we’re already discussing our interpretations, not what we see directly.
But still, it’s all very interesting... However, the Peripl version does not align with f77r, f77v, f83r, f83v. What is depicted there are not geographical features or lakes. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents the four elements. There is also f79r-f79v, but there are also lakes down there that you may be able to identify...
Yes, what we see with our eyes versus our minds can be very different, and it is good to take frequent looks at it to see if one's mind's eye still sees what it thought it saw.
The periplus does work with those pages, for me, there are two loops, Europe, then Asia and Africa. Where lakes or seas are not shown, it is generally shorelines, rivers, or mountains being portrayed.
Instead of four elements on f77r, i see water quality differences, including hot springs, approximately correctly positioned, insofar as the Danube hot sediment aquifers, and shows the problems with silt and sediment. I suppose there are some commonalities with the elements, since the river is already water, the heated water could be linked to fire, the sediments to earth, and air is there anyway too. Also the color of the tube shows the change from relatively fresh greeny to more murky brown, which shows the correct direction of flow of the Danube also. The rest is the Adriatic east shore for me, the drawings are strange because of the karst effects along that shore. But all had been locations of Venetian colonies at some point, so there would be some knowledge accumulated over time.
Thank you, I continue to see new things every time I look, so I don't think I am anywhere near complete in terms of the associations. I wish you the same success with yours also! Especially with the text, I wish I had more insight there. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > Yesterday, 09:25 PM
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Munich BSB Clm 13002 — drawings 1165 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There are few illustrations, they are inaccurate, and they are not suitable for comparison:
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Bodleian Ashmole 399 — 1298/9 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The same thing:
However, the style is somewhat reminiscent of balneology. Here’s an example:
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Bodleian MS. e Mus. 19 — late 13th c. — 11 images only (35mm scans) — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The only anatomical page (more precisely, the one that contains the illustration we are interested in) consists of 11 images:
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wellcome MS 49 (Wellcome Apocalypse) — c. 1420 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The organs are depicted quite vividly and accurately.
And there’s also a nymph here
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sydney, al-Tashrih bi al-Taswir (Mansur) — 1st half 15th c. — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I have already talked about the anatomy of Mansur. The illustrations are not suitable for comparison. There are no similarities.
(Yesterday, 05:44 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wellcome MS 290 — 15th c. — 134 images, PDF download — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Interestingly, the heart here is depicted in the form of
Total: The second manuscript on this list has more similarities, because in addition to depicting the organs in a human body, they are also presented separately, and their appearance seems deliberately rough and sometimes not entirely clear. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
JoJo_Jost > Yesterday, 09:56 PM
(Yesterday, 04:18 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On the other hand, it seems that the Church never objected to such books. So that does not seem to be a plausible reason for the VMS being encrypted, nor for the presumed anatomical illustrations to be disguised as a spa travelogue.
Yes, that’s correct in principle, but we need to distinguish this a bit more precisely: Anatomy books themselves weren’t banned outright. Dissections of corpses also took place. The sensitive issue was “corpse theft and the opening of graves” when carried out on one’s own initiative.
So the danger lay less in owning such a book than in having produced one yourself and thereby coming under suspicion of having performed an “unauthorized” dissection.
The penalties for this were quite severe. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > Yesterday, 10:09 PM
(Yesterday, 10:05 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
First, I need to find them...(Yesterday, 09:25 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[
Feel free to find your own examples
(Yesterday, 09:56 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Perhaps VMS is more accurate in its anatomical illustrations and covers topics that are not discussed or described in other such books.(Yesterday, 04:18 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On the other hand, it seems that the Church never objected to such books. So that does not seem to be a plausible reason for the VMS being encrypted, nor for the presumed anatomical illustrations to be disguised as a spa travelogue.
Yes, that’s correct in principle, but we need to distinguish this a bit more precisely: Anatomy books themselves weren’t banned outright. Dissections of corpses also took place. The sensitive issue was “corpse theft and the opening of graves” when carried out on one’s own initiative.
So the danger lay less in owning such a book than in having produced one yourself and thereby coming under suspicion of having performed an “unauthorized” dissection.
The penalties for this were quite severe.
This possible unique knowledge can only be obtained by obtaining a corpse and dissecting it.
But who knows... -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Koen G > Yesterday, 10:55 PM
(Yesterday, 10:05 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Feel free to find your own examples
Yours are a good, this is the kind of thing I've seen mostly. There are some others with babies in utero, but the uterus is invariably a "bottle"-like structure with little to no additional components.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no balneis-level parallel for the supposed biological drawings.
Edit:
Ololo, in what way is it accurate? -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > 5 hours ago
(Yesterday, 10:55 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ololo, in what way is it accurate?
Accuracy is how correctly and closely the organ is depicted in relation to the “original.” Everything is quite simple.
For example, the image of the heart from the first herbal (if it is, of course, a heart) consists simply of circles. In the last herbal, the heart is represented as a symbol, not as an organ. The illustrations are not precise; they are rather figurative and rather crude.
For example, a possible image of a heart from VMS is closer to the real heart. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > 5 hours ago