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Voynich's anatomy
- Voynich's anatomy
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RE: Voynich's anatomy
Linda > 07-08-2026, 09:23 PM
(07-08-2026, 08:06 PM)Dana Scott Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-08-2026, 03:13 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote='Linda' pid='89192' dateline='1786110451']
Which lake do you mean the brain turns into?
The lower lake on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is shaped like a brain.
Since the largest lady/nymph in the lower/brain lake is holding what appears to be a sponge,
I am inclined to favor a balneological setting.
Regards,
Dana Scott
Ah, thank you Dana, I was stuck on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by mistake! I thought the brain was the lower part of that page. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Jorge_Stolfi > 07-08-2026, 10:54 PM
(07-08-2026, 07:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.May I ask, what is the body part on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thought to be?
Hard to tell. If we consider how much the Scribe mangled other illustrations (not just in Bio, but in other sections too), the two organs that were meant to be depicted there could be eyeballs, kidneys, testicles, ovaries, ... maybe even lungs...
The serpentine pipe in the E margin of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not look much like the intestines either. However, what else could it be? I cannot imagine why one would build a water pipe with that shape, in a bath house or anywhere else.
That serpentine pipe by itself still suggests anatomy only weakly. But together with the other drawings on that page, the suggestion is too strong to dismiss.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > Yesterday, 11:00 AM
Linda, I see you’ve conducted a very large and truly worthwhile study, and I wish you great success in this endeavor!
I have nothing more to say — I can neither prove nor disprove it, because now we’re already discussing our interpretations, not what we see directly.
But still, it’s all very interesting... However, the Peripl version does not align with f77r, f77v, f83r, f83v. What is depicted there are not geographical features or lakes. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represents the four elements. There is also f79r-f79v, but there are also lakes down there that you may be able to identify... -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
eggyk > Yesterday, 01:26 PM
(07-08-2026, 10:54 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-08-2026, 07:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.May I ask, what is the body part on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thought to be?
Hard to tell. If we consider how much the Scribe mangled other illustrations (not just in Bio, but in other sections too), the two organs that were meant to be depicted there could be eyeballs, kidneys, testicles, ovaries, ... maybe even lungs...
The serpentine pipe in the E margin of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not look much like the intestines either. However, what else could it be? I cannot imagine why one would build a water pipe with that shape, in a bath house or anywhere else.
That serpentine pipe by itself still suggests anatomy only weakly. But together with the other drawings on that page, the suggestion is too strong to dismiss.
All the best, --stolfi
If You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the the most obvious examples of body parts, yet 77v doesn't really look like intenstines, and 83v is unclear enough that it could be any number of potential body parts, is it really that obvious a connection at all?
Of course we will then see other drawings as body parts when primed to look for it. The same would happen with any other theory, including the bodies of water examples shown earlier. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
ololololo > Yesterday, 01:49 PM
(Yesterday, 01:26 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This is called the Voynich curse.(07-08-2026, 10:54 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-08-2026, 07:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.May I ask, what is the body part on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thought to be?
Hard to tell. If we consider how much the Scribe mangled other illustrations (not just in Bio, but in other sections too), the two organs that were meant to be depicted there could be eyeballs, kidneys, testicles, ovaries, ... maybe even lungs...
The serpentine pipe in the E margin of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not look much like the intestines either. However, what else could it be? I cannot imagine why one would build a water pipe with that shape, in a bath house or anywhere else.
That serpentine pipe by itself still suggests anatomy only weakly. But together with the other drawings on that page, the suggestion is too strong to dismiss.
All the best, --stolfi
If You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the the most obvious examples of body parts, yet 77v doesn't really look like intenstines, and 83v is unclear enough that it could be any number of potential body parts, is it really that obvious a connection at all?
Of course we will then see other drawings as body parts when primed to look for it. The same would happen with any other theory, including the bodies of water examples shown earlier.
Or pareidolia. Or eisegesis.
We can point out the similarities, but we cant prove whether they actually exist.
There’s nothing to be done about it... -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Linda > Yesterday, 01:58 PM
(07-08-2026, 10:54 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-08-2026, 07:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.May I ask, what is the body part on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thought to be?
Hard to tell. If we consider how much the Scribe mangled other illustrations (not just in Bio, but in other sections too), the two organs that were meant to be depicted there could be eyeballs, kidneys, testicles, ovaries, ... maybe even lungs...
The serpentine pipe in the E margin of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not look much like the intestines either. However, what else could it be? I cannot imagine why one would build a water pipe with that shape, in a bath house or anywhere else.
That serpentine pipe by itself still suggests anatomy only weakly. But together with the other drawings on that page, the suggestion is too strong to dismiss.
All the best, --stolfi
I agree they are all very weak in terms of definitely being something, whatever that something is. They certainly did a good job with the ambiguity.
It's funny, though, I was just looking at portolan examples of the area I was equating with the intestines drawing, and some of them were from hundreds of years in the future, in terms of the vms, but I realized that time helped nothing, a lot of it was far off reality, ie also very weak, and using the intestines drawing as a mnemonic for that area would have helped a lot of them make more realistic maps.
For me these eyeballs on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are also eyeballs, a little more metaphorically, and more because some of the Beatus map traditions drew the Nile source to look like criss-crossed eyeballs, especially the Girona and Turin versions, and the Ptolomy style maps look even more like eyeballs with eyelashes but there is less emphasis on the crisscrossing. It was all meant to convey that there are multiple points of origin from the mountains where the water would sometimes cross, come together, or split apart again but still be called the Nile, not to mention the white and blue. -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 02:57 PM
(Yesterday, 01:26 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are the the most obvious examples of body parts, yet 77v doesn't really look like intenstines, and 83v is unclear enough that it could be any number of potential body parts, is it really that obvious a connection at all?
It is not at all "obvious", and indeed each figure, by itself, is not particularly "anatomical". But, again, the sum of all those weak suggestions is too strong to ignore.
Quote:Of course we will then see other drawings as body parts when primed to look for it. The same would happen with any other theory, including the bodies of water examples shown earlier.
The interpretation as "spa" is the obvious one and needs no imagination. There are hundreds of naked women bathing and frolicking in water pools and tubs, some of them with hypocaust heating, with water running in channels and pipes.
But there are a few drawings, like the two balls on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the serpentine pipe on f77v, where the "spa" interpretation does not seem to work. Many people must have come up with the "anatomical" interpretation of those drawings on their own, without being primed.
Maybe one could try a third "alchemical" interpretation. The pools and pipes could represent chemical vessels or stages of preparation. However, I don't think that coiled condensers were used in the 15th century; on drawings I recall only simple retorts with straight condensers. And I cannot "parse" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as an alchemical apparatus.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Koen G > Yesterday, 03:53 PM
With the biological theory being so popular, I'm surprised that no comprehensive study has been done yet comparing it to medieval anatomy books. What's in there and what isn't? How were things represented. We can all agree that some Q13 shapes look organic and some even resemble modern anatomical diagrams when you squint and ignore everything, but evidence is limited. (Apart from, iirc, the general idea of representing intestines as a spiral roll). -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 04:18 PM
(Yesterday, 03:53 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With the biological theory being so popular, I'm surprised that no comprehensive study has been done yet comparing it to medieval anatomy books. What's in there and what isn't? How were things represented.
Good questions!
According to a quick inquiry, it seems that there were a few famous anatomical books available at the time, but they were not widely circulated outside medical universities.
On the other hand, it seems that the Church never objected to such books. So that does not seem to be a plausible reason for the VMS being encrypted, nor for the presumed anatomical illustrations to be disguised as a spa travelogue.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Voynich's anatomy
DG97EEB > Yesterday, 05:44 PM
Thank you, Claude
Munich BSB Clm 13002 — drawings 1165 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bodleian Ashmole 399 — 1298/9 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bodleian MS. e Mus. 19 — late 13th c. — 11 images only (35mm scans) — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Wellcome MS 49 (Wellcome Apocalypse) — c. 1420 — full manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Sydney, al-Tashrih bi al-Taswir (Mansur) — 1st half 15th c. — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
NLM MS P 18 (Mansur) — 8 Dec 1488 — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Wellcome MS 290 — 15th c. — 134 images, PDF download — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Btw, that Ms 49 is awesome.. the first section is chock full of stars and wolkenbanden and Biblical creatures