Ladies with Rings

[MarcoP]

Great!  The ms is now being digitized ..? cause the link does not provide me with the ms at the Vatican..

What is interesting in this entire thread and the pictorial research is it seems we all have a mutual understanding:
that the images in with details have a symbolic value and meaning in the VMS.

So we assume that the pictures are not to be taken literal, like "a woman is showing a ring" but the drawing is symbolic.

Hello David,
it seems that the site is under maintenance right now. A few hours ago, it worked regularly.

The Balneological section is a great challenge. Scholars who have mentioned it (I am thinking of Alain Touwaide and Sergio Toresella) seem to take it literally. The closest parallels are actual depictions of bathing places (first of all, the often mentioned De Balneis Puteolanis). But this flying "pangolin" can hardly be taken literally, so there is at least a mixture of literal and symbolic elements. The fact that the ring in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is over-sized seems suggestive of its symbolic function. On the other hand, the magic ring in Reg.Lat.1283 is an actual ring (an amulet): it is so large only because it is an important element in the text.

Anyway, even if I am somehow undecided, I tend to think that the whole section is symbolic and that the bathing women do not represent bathing women.

[Koen G]

For what it's worth, I think the nymphs with attributes refer to constellations on the base level and mythological figures on the mnemonic level. I don't have concrete proposals for all of them yet, but I discuss an example in my latest post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

[Davidsch]

Today, I've located another clear symbolic image and description of the ring.

source
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nice site to explore things:
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description:
Symbolic ring on hand = wedding band

Didacus Valades, Scala Naturae,1579 

God holds in his left hand the earth and in his right a wedding band, his bond with the Church. From here, the Chain descends through all being.

image:


The great chain of being is a strict, religious hierarchical structure of all matter and life, believed to have been decreed by God. The chain starts from God and progresses downward to angels, demons (fallen/renegade angels), stars, moon, kings, princes, nobles, commoners, wild animals, domesticated animals, trees, other plants, precious stones, precious metals, and other minerals.

The great chain of being (Latin: scala naturae, "ladder of being") is a concept derived from Plato, Aristotle (in his Historia animalium), Plotinus, and Proclus. Further developed during the Middle Ages, it reached full expression in early modern Neoplatonism. wikipedia

[-JKP-]

It took me a while to find this (I have two large hard drives full of VMS files), but I thought this was interesting because it combines a ring with several images of stars:



Codex Manesse (c. 1304).

[Davidsch]

thanks, but it's not the same ring: zoom in on your ring and you will see that it's bling-bling

[Koen G]

This one is not a ring, it's a mirror. Birth of Aphrodite (very popular motif), this example from a 4th century Roman mosaic from Syria, as so often. Note that she is known for her long, flowing hair, looking in mirrors, wearing diadems and being surrounded by little nude fellows, as can be seen in both the VM and the mosaic.

   

[-JKP-]

This one is not a ring, it's a mirror. Birth of Aphrodite (very popular motif), this example from a 4th century Roman mosaic from Syria, as so often. Note that she is known for her long, flowing hair, looking in mirrors, wearing diadems and being surrounded by little nude fellows, as can be seen in both the VM and the mosaic.

Good example, Koen, especially considering both the hair and the "ring" in the VMS image are emphasized and oversized.

[R. Sale]

And there is more to it than that. Does the mosaic have a sort of cloud band? There is some sort of veil of something that behaves like a length of cloth. And there is the seashell pattern. In the VMS there is a bit of nebuly line. And off to the left a bit of needle work that almost looks like was part of a pattern, when it is cropped this close.

The significant difference is that the VMs 'mirror' is *blank*, while the mosaic has the goddess' image. What use is a blank mirror?

At some point in the investigation there are certain things to consider. In this case:
1) Is it a ring? So what if it is?
2) Is it a mirror? If so, where is the reflection?
3) Is the artist negligent in such omission? Why smudge it? Just skip it.
4) Is the artist really that much ahead of the game. Able to play on the ambiguities of absence, separation and orientation?

[Koen G]

R.Sale: very good point about the patterns. The mirror is not a problem. This is a popular stock scene that survived in many places. I posted this one because it happens to compare well to the VM. Usually the image in the mirror is not visible to the viewer since Aphrodite is looking at it herself. So this mosaic is exceptional in containing this feature.

[bi3mw]

I also think it could be a mirror. Interestingly, the color inside the "ring" was left bright. If it is a ring, it should have the darker color of the background, right ? This of course depends on how the coloring of the VMS was done in general.

Could it be Venus instead of Aphrodite ? The children of Venus are often represented as bathing men and women ( here the smaller nymphs?). I couldn't find something directly comparable, but this Venus from "De Sphaera" seems to hold a mirror in her hand. Correct me if I am wrong.



Biblioteca Estense Universitaria di Modena, De Sphaera, Ms.lat. 209,
folio 9v. Venus, Christoforo de Predis, Around 1470