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  VViews > 24-03-2016, 02:57 PM

  Meet Miss von Lehwaldt:
  
  
  
  Isn't she lovely?
  Image from wikimedia commons.
  More about her on my wordpress: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Also posting here in the hope that we can get some sort of database of possible options for the Ladies with Rings motif.

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  Anton > 24-03-2016, 03:06 PM

  Yes, it's interesting what this ring is meant to symbolize.

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  VViews > 24-03-2016, 03:23 PM

  (24-03-2016, 03:06 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, it's interesting what this ring is meant to symbolize.

  
  The most obvious interpretation is that the ring symbolizes virtue or purity, as in the Niebelunglied.
  But there are other options:
  The legend of saint Kinga's ring, which might refer to wealth acquired through the salt trade, or even the Borromean rings which were used as a symbol of political allegiance (Borromean rings work in three's and there are three ladies with rings in the balneo section).

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  -JKP- > 24-03-2016, 05:42 PM

  (24-03-2016, 03:23 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (24-03-2016, 03:06 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, it's interesting what this ring is meant to symbolize.

  
  The most obvious interpretation is that the ring symbolizes virtue or purity, as in the Niebelunglied.
  But there are other options:
  The legend of saint Kinga's ring, which might refer to wealth acquired through the salt trade, or even the Borromean rings which were used as a symbol of political allegiance (Borromean rings work in three's and there are three ladies with rings in the balneo section).

  
  In some manuscripts, it symbolizes marriage.

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  VViews > 24-03-2016, 06:25 PM

  Indeed, JKP! Just read what you wrote as I was about to post something similar:
  
  The ring is a symbol of the mystical marriage to Christ, and as such is an attribute of some saints, such as Catherine and Agnes, who are both often pictured holding rings, for eg. in this late 15th Century painting by the Master of the Legend of St Lucy:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  However, I must say that in none of the iconographies I have mentioned (Saint Kinga, Saint Agnes, or Saint Catherine) have I seen these rings depicted as oversized and held as they are in the Voynich and in the Lehwaldt arms.
  This type of motif where an oversized, jeweled ring is clutched in a fist is something I have only found in heraldic images, from a very limited geographic area in Germany, such as here in the arms of the Lords of Stargard:
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• RE: Ladies with Rings

  Anton > 27-03-2016, 12:32 AM

  In f80v, we have a beast above the lady with a ring. This beast has been proposed to be a pangolin, an armadillo and a mythical basilisk. I don't know why a pangolin or an armadillo would soar in the sky (as expressly depicted), so my vote is for the basilisk.
  
  Now, supposing that the ring means woman's virtue, what would basilisk have in common with that? Maybe, being the symbol of sin, it tries to undermine that virtue?

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  VViews > 27-03-2016, 02:14 AM

  That is a very good question Anton. As I've written before, I'm still undecided on the nature of this beast, and not really convinced by any of the ID's that have been proposed so far for this one...  Neither armadillos, pangolins nor even basilisks live in clouds.
  However, it may be as you say.
  Just a thought, if we're considering this as a good vs evil thing: the beast might be emanating from her... is the virtue she projects so ostensibly only a façade, while her evil side sleeps?

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  david > 27-03-2016, 09:26 AM

  Quote:This beast has been proposed to be a pangolin, an armadillo and a mythical basilisk.

  Years ago I came across a reference to wolves being linked to storms and rainfall in medieval Germania, but I since lost it and can't find it now. The beast there could be a Wolf arching its back - anyone know of a reference in this fashion?

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  Anton > 27-03-2016, 02:41 PM

  Quote:Neither armadillos, pangolins nor even basilisks live in clouds.

  
  This is not necessarily the literal cloud, this cloudband pattern was generally used to represent heavens, the borderline between the earthly and unearthly or spiritual.
  
  

  Quote:is the virtue she projects so ostensibly only a façade, while her evil side sleeps?

  
  That's possible. AFAIK, basilisks were associated with "impurity" in women, such as with whores or with menstrual blood.
  
  
  

  Quote:The beast there could be a Wolf arching its back

  
  Caruncle, beak and scales speak against a wolf. One thing is certain though - we can exclude animals with hooves.

• RE: Ladies with Rings

  Wladimir D > 27-03-2016, 08:00 PM

  I'm not sure that this ring (Signet). This may be a ring for the mouth, so as not to spoil the teeth (tongue) during childbirth. See, what keeps woman in f80r. This gynecological instrument.
  
  I agree with the opinion expressed in the Bax site that the animal on the "cloud" – pangolin (mammal).
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