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An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

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  • An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.
• An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

• RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

  davidd > 7 hours ago

  (8 hours ago)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thank you, Davidd, for your explanation. I understand the first step: you are looking for the words before and after the word qokeedy. There are 306 occurrences of qokeedy. Do you have a list of words that go with them?

  yes that is correct, although i dont store those lists, i generate them each time in full, for every vord.
  
  

  Code:

  ===== vord qokeedy =====
vord: qokeedy
count: 302
before:  {'shedy': 16, 'sokolytedy': 1, 'qokedy': 14, 'tochey': 1, 'a[g:j]': 1, 'dchdaldyykedy': 1, 'lkedylkeeody': 1, 'qotedy': 6, 'okeedchsy': 1, 'sheedy': 9, 'okedy': 2, 'shey': 4, 'chcthy': 2, 'lchedy': 4, 'shckhy': 1, 'olchey': 1, 'keedy': 1, 'lol': 1, 'yshedy': 2, 'sokeedy': 1, 'solkedy': 1, 'ykeechy': 1, 'solchedy': 2, 'okeedy': 9, 'checkhy': 1, 'yksheol': 1, 'chedy': 10, 'dchedy': 2, 'chey': 6, 'da': 1, 'lteedy': 2, 'lo': 1, 'lshedy': 2, 'cheedy': 4, 'shckhey': 1, 'alchedy': 1, 'shcthey': 1, 'ched': 1, 'qolcheedy': 2, 'sheety': 1, 'qotaiin': 1, 'lsheey': 1, 'sheal': 2, 'olshedy': 2, 'qoteedy': 2, 'cheeol': 2, 'd[o:a]lchl': 1, 'arol': 1, 'chdy': 3, 'sheekey': 1, 'sheol': 2, 'oky': 1, 'deedy': 1, 'ol': 3, 'dshedy': 1, 'oteedy': 4, 'ory': 1, 'qokshedy': 1, 'otaram': 1, 'qokshey': 1, 'kedy': 2, 'sheey': 1, 'rolchey': 1, 'yteedy': 2, 'olkshey': 1, 'ykeedy': 2, 'dag': 1, 'sheky': 1, 'okchdy': 1, 'shecthy': 2, 'chety': 1, 'okaly': 2, 'dolfchedy': 1, 'polshdy': 1, 'chckhy': 1, 'lkchedy': 1, 'olchedy': 2, 'dy': 1, 'okain': 1, 'lar': 1, 'tshey': 1, 'daldy': 1, 'olfchedy': 1, 'okai': 1, 'olkeedy': 4, 'qokchedy': 1, 'otchedy': 3, 'start': 3, 'olkshedy': 1, 'qoal': 1, 'qolteedy': 1, 'psholpchcfhdy': 1, 'schdy': 1, 'olain': 1, 'teedy': 1, 'dsheey': 1, 'qokchey': 1, 'tshy': 1, 'ody': 1, 'tchedy': 2, 'cholkaiin': 1, 'shdal': 1, 'shedain': 3, 'qokshy': 1, 'olldy': 1, 'sho': 1, 'ockhedy': 1, 'pchedy': 1, 'chol': 1, 'qoeeey': 1, 'otaiin': 1, 'otedy': 5, 'qoeey': 1, 'orchsey': 1, 'dsheol': 2, 'shaiin': 1, 'odain': 1, 'ksheody': 1, 'okeey': 4, 'okcheey': 1, 'qockhy': 1, 'okeody': 1, 'qokey': 2, 'kedydy': 1, 'qokeey': 9, 'sheedain': 1, 'lkedy': 1, 'loety': 1, 'chedeey': 1, 'shed': 1, 'sholkeedy': 1, 'sheeal': 1, 'keear': 1, 'cheol': 1, 'dsheeo': 1, 'oteey': 2, 'dchedshey': 1, 'teey': 1, 'okeeol': 1, 'ar': 1, 'chody': 1, 'qokeokedy': 1, 'odys': 1, 'sheokeedy': 1, 'sheeol': 1, 'ykeedain': 1, 'lkeedy': 1, 'oteo': 1, 'tshedy': 1, 'oarorold': 1, 'dchedain': 1, 'qoteeedy': 1, 'kody': 1, 'ykeeochody': 1, 'otedain': 1, 'lchey': 1, 'rshey': 1})
after: {'qoteedar': 1, 'qokedy': 11, 'dar': 3, 'qokaiin': 5, 'okedy': 3, 'okeey': 5, 'qokody': 1, 'chetedar': 1, 'cheteyoteeod': 1, 'qokal': 5, 'shey': 1, 'qoky': 4, 'qokair': 1, 'shy': 1, 'lolchedy': 1, 'chedy': 7, 'qokey': 3, 'qokechdy': 1, 'ldy': 1, 'olkeedy': 4, 'oteedy': 4, 'qoteey': 2, 'qotar': 1, 'qok[o:a]l': 1, 'daiin': 2, 'qopchedy': 2, 'checthy': 1, 'qotey': 2, 'okain': 1, 'oty': 1, 'olyshey': 1, 'olkedy': 1, 'ochedy': 1, 'okeedy': 4, 'qotal': 2, 'qol': 4, 'cheedy': 2, 'shl': 1, 'qotchy': 1, 'saiin': 2, 'qolkey': 1, 'lshedy': 1, 'lol': 4, 'qotedy': 6, 'shedy': 6, 'lchey': 3, 'qokar': 6, 'qokol': 1, 'qokeey': 9, 'qodykey': 1, 'dal': 2, '[r:s]al': 1, 'qokam': 1, 'otedy': 3, 'kedy': 1, 'kchol': 1, 'sheey': 1, 'otaram': 1, 'qotain': 3, 'qokain': 5, 'qokechey': 1, 'ror': 1, 'rolchey': 1, 'yteedy': 2, 'ykeey': 1, 'qopcheololkoiin': 1, 'checkhy': 2, 'saltar': 1, 'oly': 1, 'qokail': 1, 'qoker': 1, 'shky': 1, 'tchdy': 1, 'chcphey': 1, 'qokalcthol': 1, 'lchedy': 4, 'cheey': 1, 'ralchey': 1, 'lchy': 1, 'lcheedy': 1, 'cheal': 1, 'rshedy': 1, 'lochedy': 1, 'qotaiin': 1, 'rag': 1, 'qokedal': 1, 'rcheey': 1, 'oky': 1, 'chedain': 1, 'qolchey': 1, 'shckhedy': 1, 'qokedar': 1, 'okaiin': 1, 'olkar': 1, 'qolkeedy': 1, 'dy': 1, 'olkey': 1, 'dkedy': 1, 'qoeedy': 1, 'ykedy': 1, 'doltshdy': 1, 'kain': 1, 'pchedy': 1, 'qoedy': 1, 'lor': 1, 'ykeedy': 1, 'qokchdy': 1, 'shol': 1, 'qoteor': 1, 'cheol': 2, 'olkeeshy': 1, 'chedal': 1, 'oteey': 2, 'qotair': 1, 'dcheol': 1, 'laiiin': 1, 'chdor': 1, 'ched': 2, 'otol': 1, 'sail': 1, 'opchor': 1, 'qotokody': 1, 'chotchedy': 1, 'okeol': 1, 'qokokil': 1, 'rary': 1, 'chody': 1, 'chokedy': 1, 'sheoky': 1, 'cholcheey': 1, 'oteor': 1, 'qokoy': 1, 'okeeom': 1, 'chokeedy': 1, 'lchdy': 1, 'qokeo': 1, 'lky': 1, 'raraiin': 1, 'shok': 1, 'okedain': 1, 'chea[?:m]': 1, 'chey': 2, 'qoteedy': 1, 'teedy': 1, 'otchedey': 1, 'oteolair': 1, 'okeodain': 1, 'qoteedaiin': 1, 'chkal': 1, 'dl': 1, 'key': 1, 'oteeolkeey': 1, 'chckhy': 1, 'qokeol': 1, 'lchsl': 1, 'chokain': 1, 'qochaiin': 1, 'chedaiin': 2, 'qokeeey': 1, 'eeed[ee:a][g:d]': 1, 'qoteosam': 1, 'chkaiin': 1, 'cheky': 1, 'shdy': 2, 'otedar': 1, 'olar': 1, 'otchey': 1, 'chdodaiin': 1, 'okaly': 1, 'olkeechdy': 1, 'qoteo': 1, 'qoaiin': 1, 'chols': 1, 'lxor': 1, 'chodain': 1, 'lkeedas': 1, 'shckhy': 1, 'chtain': 1, 'raiin': 1})

• RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

  davidd > 7 hours ago

  apologies still learning
  
  
  
  
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• RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

  Ruby Novacna > 6 hours ago

  I thought your program was supposed to output a list of 306 groups of two or three words, with qokeedy in the middle or at the beginning.
  You also combined some words separated by the drawings, which resulted in several unusual words. I also couldn't find the word sokolytedy.

• RE: An attempt at extracting grammar from vord order statistics.

  MarcoP > 37 minutes ago

  Hi Davidd, I am happy to see you working on this subject. I believe there are patterns that can be discovered with the POS-approach (though I haven't been very successful).
  I have a few suggestions and a question:

  • submit your research to the Voynich Day presentation on August 4; it doesn't have to be perfect, you could just describe in more detail what you have done so far
    
  • add a few more words as labels of word classes, e.g. I believe that "shedy" includes "chedy" and vice-versa - it would be nice if it was clear if this is actually the case
    
  • try your method at least on a simple English text with the same word count as the Voynich samples you are processing; this will tell you what are the results you can expect in a best-case scenario
    
  • Question: why the double arcs between "aiin" and "otaiin"? The "aiin" loop is also doubled, but in that case the % is the same, so it's less of a problem [EDIT: I guess it could be because you are plotting an arc for "aiin" as a class following "otaiin" and another arc for "otaiin" as a class preceding "aiin"; a possible solution could be only plotting "following" or "preceding" arcs. IIRC my approach was computing % as the rate or total word transitions on the whole text, rather than the rate of "aiin" following "otaiin" on the total of "aiin.X" couples]
    

     
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