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The Rosettes Page - March 2024

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  • The Rosettes Page - March 2024
• The Rosettes Page - March 2024

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 21-11-2024, 02:06 PM

  So, is this a non-map with map-like features within it?
  Or, is it a map with non-map-like features within it?

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 21-11-2024, 10:34 PM

  I have been intending to produce a "Key" to the "Map". This is because there appear to be standard ways that certain features of the page are illustrated.
  
  Such as the following:
  
  1) Areas covered by water are illustrated with blue and white wavy lines.
  2) Rivers seem to be illustrated with curvy meandering lines often with dots.
  3) Slopes appear to be illustrated with long hashed lines together often with what look like curvy undulating paths along them.
  4) Large ocean/sea waves are illustrated in 2 places near the top right Rosette and 1 place near the bottom right Rosette.
  5) There are 2 snow-covered mountains with water pouring from their summits. One of these mountains is near the top right Rosette and the other is near the bottom right Rosette. They both point inwards. I take them both to refer to the Alps.
  6) What I take to represent "open countryside" such as fields is illustrated with lines containing dots. We can see these particularly on the top left to centre left causeway and bottom left to bottom centre causeway.
  7) What I take to represent "rough country" is illustrated with a series of circles each containing a dot that can be seen on the bottom centre to bottom right causeway and the bottom right to centre right causeway.
  
  The different stylist illustration of different regions/areas and features seems quite deliberate.
  
  I hope to provide an illustrated version of this key.
  
  Such a key again fits neatly with the idea that the page is a map. I don't believe that many of these details have really ever been discussed elsewhere.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 21-11-2024, 10:46 PM

  I think hashed lines are often used to indicate the end of a body of water. So we can see that in some places they are used to illustrate that two nearby bodies of water are separate from one another. We can see this on the causeway between the centre left and bottom left rosette and on the causeway between the bottom left Rosette and the bottom centre Rosette.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 21-11-2024, 11:00 PM

  I have tended not to identify the top left rosette as a map. I found this a hard rosette to interpret as it is so lacking in detail and therefore lacking in clues to its meaning. On the basis of its relative position and geographical illustrations nearby it and on the basis of my general analysis of this page I came to the conclusion that this rosette must be Basel where the Papal Council was held. I think this represents the place where the Council was held in the Cathedral with the participants and the outlookers surroundings them as in a auditorium or theatre. I think a helpful identifying feature are the "cannons" pointing towards the central rosette which is also surrounded by "cannons" pointing outwards. I think these opposing "cannons" illustrate the hostility between the council and the pope. I also suspect that the author chose to illustrate the Council with such a lack of detail reflected his own disillusionment with the council.
  So if this represents a view of the Papal Council from above then it could in one sense be considered a sub-map if just zoomed in a lot. Though I don't really feel it makes so much sense to consider it a sub-map.
  How I wish the author had just add a bit more detail to this rosette.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 21-11-2024, 11:13 PM

  It think it important to stress that I think it very very unlikely that every detail in my interpretation of this page is correct for the simple reason that I have identified so very many details and tried to provide an interpretation of each of them that the probability of my being correct in every instance down to the smallest building identification seems very small. However, I felt it important to try to provide the best identification and interpretation of every detail that I could in the context of the theory of the page.
  Despite my expectation that I must have made some mistakes it is also my opinion that I have got the bulk of my analysis of this page correct.
  I have looked at the other theories of this page, both other map theories and non-map theories, that I am aware of, which as many of them are so much less detailed than my own I have been able to do in a reasonable amount of time.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 22-11-2024, 02:06 PM

  I have attached an image of the rosettes folio showing the stages in the development of my theory of the page.
  
  1) It start with the Pelling hypothesis that the top right Rosette represents Milan.
  
  Assuming the page is a map and (1) is a correct identification I then go around the page part by part identifying other locations and details.
  
  2) Given the notions regarding the bearing on the page and the bearings within Milan I then identify this causeway with the land between Lake Maggiore and Lake Como. This was the first sign to me that there might be something in the Milan identification as the drawing of the causeway fits rather neatly with the geography in this area.
  
  3) Looking at this I felt that Nick Pelling's identification of the Certosa di Pavia was likely correct despite a few initial doubts.
  
  4) Following on from the causeway (2) identification this causeway also appeared to follow quite logically. This again increased my interest in Nick Pelling's initial hypothesis.
  
  5) The concentration of Lakes around Lucerne seem to be the most plausible location for this rosette to me.
  
  And so on...
  
  I will go through the steps in much greater detail, but this diagram show give a good idea as to how my theory of the page evolved.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 22-11-2024, 02:10 PM

  Step 12 is the most crucial step as it points to the Barbavara authorship. Step 12 was arrived at out Step 3 and Step 7 and the page bearings and the aerial view of the Abbey of Saints Nazzaro and Celso. Step 3 and Step 7 and the page scale and bearings pointed me to the area in which I expected to locate the bottom right Rosette.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 22-11-2024, 02:30 PM

  Step 16 is the identification that I have most uncertainty about as I have most problem with making a clear match. There are 3 Barbavara castles in the geographical area between San Nazzaro Sesia and Bellinzona, but all 3 castles are in ruin now, so determining what they actually looked like in the early 15th century is hard. These 3 castles are in Roccapietra, Arezzo and Palanza. Now it is possible that this rosette is associated with a different geographical location in this area that I am not aware of or have considered.
  

  ---

  Step 17 is a somewhat mystifying rosette and the identification that I have come to makes the most sense to me given the location I expect that rosette to cover and the appearance of the Visconti crown.

• RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024

  Mark Knowles > 22-11-2024, 02:34 PM

  Step 6 could be wrong in its precise identification.
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