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Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

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• Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

• Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  SherriMM > Yesterday, 06:26 AM

  New blog post and theory: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
  
  To summarize, "I believe the starred paragraph section of the Voynich are a collection of sayings, or moral maxims (or ethical aphorisms, or gnomes), of Pythagorean beliefs, of the specific collections proposed below:
  
  In this section of the Voynich we have 324 stars, each aligned more or less with a sentence or a few. There are also at least two missing folios (109r / 109v and 110r / 110v). Each folio averages around 14 stars, with some like 103r higher at 19, and three folios at the lowest end of 10 stars (105r, 105v, and 116r), and the rest vary in amount. So if we assume our 4 missing folios at 14 stars each, it would give us 56 added stars, or 380 total goal (324 we have plus 56 estimated missing = 380).  With me so far?
  
  Here’s what I suggest:
  

  • The Pythagorean Sentences = 123
    
  • The Sentences of Clitarchus = 130*
    The Golden Sentences of Democrates = 80 (some have 84?)
    
  • The Similitudes of Demophilus = 59**
    

  Adding these up we get 392.  Pretty close to our 380 estimate.
  
  It would mean our missing four folios would have to total 68, or average of 17 stars per page. Well within existing Folios (remember 103r has 19).  I wonder if Folio 58r / 58v belongs in this section as well, which would bring our missing stars total down."   
  
  Please see my blog post for more information. 
  
  To clarify, I do not mean it is a word-for-word copy - I am still on the team of the text as a cipher. 
  
  I will post my other theory in a new thread, but this theory is very related to the overall theme of a Pythagorean influence. I would love some discussion on this, and welcome all corrections and feedback.   
  
  
  All the best,
  Sherri Mastrangelo

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 08:19 PM

  (Yesterday, 06:26 AM)SherriMM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To summarize, "I believe the starred paragraph section [SPS] of the Voynich are a collection of sayings, or moral maxims (or ethical aphorisms, or gnomes), of Pythagorean beliefs

  
  Hm, a direct competitor to my theory that the SPS is a transcription of the Chinese materia medica Shennong Bencaojing... 
  
  

  Quote:Here’s what I suggest: ... To clarify, I do not mean it is a word-for-word copy - I am still on the team of the text as a cipher.

  
  Have you got a digital transcription of those proposed sayings?  Can you compare the lengths (in number of words or letters) of those sayings to the lengths (in words or EVA characters) of the SPS?  Even if the latter is encrypted, the lengths should be proportional.  
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  SherriMM > Yesterday, 10:18 PM

  (Yesterday, 08:19 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (Yesterday, 06:26 AM)SherriMM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To summarize, "I believe the starred paragraph section [SPS] of the Voynich are a collection of sayings, or moral maxims (or ethical aphorisms, or gnomes), of Pythagorean beliefs

  
  Hm, a direct competitor to my theory that the SPS is a transcription of the Chinese materia medica Shennong Bencaojing... 
  
  

  Quote:Here’s what I suggest: ... To clarify, I do not mean it is a word-for-word copy - I am still on the team of the text as a cipher.

  
  Have you got a digital transcription of those proposed sayings?  Can you compare the lengths (in number of words or letters) of those sayings to the lengths (in words or EVA characters) of the SPS?  Even if the latter is encrypted, the lengths should be proportional.  
  
  All the best, --stolfi

  
  Yes - I put together a quick image example attached. I'm hoping to have time soon to put together a full comparison. It seems most of the lengths of the starred Voynich paragraphs, or sentences, are a little longer - which gives me a lot of ideas about the direction to head in the cipher. In the meantime, all the links are in my blog post for the sources I have if anyone wants to help compare the Greek and Latin with the VM. If anyone has an Italian source for these sentences I would love to see it as well! 
  -Sherri      

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  Ruby Novacna > Yesterday, 10:47 PM

  (Yesterday, 08:19 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you got a digital transcription of those proposed sayings?  Can you compare the lengths (in number of words or letters) of those sayings to the lengths (in words or EVA characters) of the SPS?  Even if the latter is encrypted, the lengths should be proportional. 

  
  I wonder if it is possible to translate a Greek text into English with the same number of words and letters.

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 11:39 PM

  (Yesterday, 10:47 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wonder if it is possible to translate a Greek text into English with the same number of words and letters.

  
  That seems possible, although in a longer sentence the translation may be stilted and forced:
  
    Μην προσπαθείς να διδάξεις σε έναν χωρικό πόσο καλά ταιριάζει το τυρί με τα αχλάδια.
    Nee condescend to instruct an oman whence much good provolone on pear is he gathers.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  Linda > Today, 02:29 AM

  (Yesterday, 10:18 PM)SherriMM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes - I put together a quick image example attached. I'm hoping to have time soon to put together a full comparison. It seems most of the lengths of the starred Voynich paragraphs, or sentences, are a little longer - which gives me a lot of ideas about the direction to head in the cipher. In the meantime, all the links are in my blog post for the sources I have if anyone wants to help compare the Greek and Latin with the VM. If anyone has an Italian source for these sentences I would love to see it as well! 
  -Sherri  
  
  

  
  Why is the vms example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 3rd paragraph down? 
  
  You had also said this:
  
  

  Quote:Here’s what I suggest:
  The Pythagorean Sentences = 123
  The Sentences of Clitarchus = 130*
  The Golden Sentences of Democrates = 80 (some have 84?)
  The Similitudes of Demophilus = 59**
  Adding these up we get 392.  Pretty close to our 380 estimate.

  
  Is this the order in which you believe they are laid out?
  
  103r 19 stars
  103v 14
  104r 13 
  104v 13 
  105r 10 
  105v 10 this is 79 stars to here.
  106r 15. The third one has a extra little star attached to it.
  
  If it was the first of the Similitudes of Demophilus, shouldn't it be farther into the pages? Seems funny that it should be at the end of a page when less than 100 stars had gone by. Although, it seems like some of quire 20 could be out of order, do you have a preferred ordering?
  
  I noticed that some have more flourished gallows at the start of the page, there are about 4 of them like that but I think a couple are on the same folio, 105r & v. There is also 106v and 113r, which also happen to be attached. 
  
  Anyway, just curious how your idea works out. I also note that there seems to be correlations with quire 13 insofar as shared words between the two quires that seem less used in other sections.

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  SherriMM > Today, 05:10 AM

  Hi Linda, 
  
  1) I just picked a random selection from the VM that was similar in size as an example. I agree it is in a strange place to be the start of the Similitudes. 
  
  2) I am not firm on the collection I proposed (see below for an alternative), and am open to other selections and combinations. I have also not considered order yet (of matching the sentences with the stars, or of the folios in this section).
  
  3) Since I wrote the blog post, I have also noticed another grouping that might be better: 
  
  Pythag. Sentences - 123
  Sentences of Democrates - 80
  Similitudes of Demophilis - 59
  Sentences of Demophilis - 45
  Golden Versus - 71
  Total of this combination = 378
  
  This version is closer to my estimate of 380 than the other combo with 392.  
  
  I know I have a lot of work to do here! 
  
  Great point about the flourished gallows, and also about the shared words / quires.
  -Sherri

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  Linda > Today, 06:46 AM

  Hi Sherri,
  
  I have certainly not found anything that fits yet, would be nice if it matched up with something! I like the idea of your choices. But I think it might be difficult as you would not know which might fit where, so there will be many permutations to try out.

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  DG97EEB > Today, 07:18 AM

  It feels to me like too many degrees of freedom, and the pattern matching real curse of the Voynich in full effect, sorry...  Pre register a hypothesis detailed enough to be tested by anyone on the forum, run it, and then see if the results hold..

• RE: Starred Paragraphs are Pythagorean Sentences, or Maxims

  JoJo_Jost > Today, 07:33 AM

  When I look at your sources, they’re all from modern times—which makes the counting method questionable. Do you also have sources from the early 15th century or earlier where the numbers would be comparable?
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