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• Irena Hanzíková - Translations

• Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  Codix > 24-08-2022, 08:36 AM

  This is nothing new but I was surprised to not a mention to it in here. I thought this is yet another person claiming to have decoded the VMS but after reading on her website this woman claims to have translated over a third of it so far (which is supposedly written in old Czech and encoded), citing some of the contents from the individual pages and went as far as identifying the author of the manuscript (which seems to be consistent in location and time period).
  
  Looking at the blog updates she has been doing this for many years now and seems to keep posting updates every few months with new page translations. She must be getting more than just some human readable gibberish I believe but what I could not find is any mention to the type of encoding to verify her claims.
  
  Have you heard about her before? What do you think about her story?
  
  Thanks!
  
  
  Source:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Original: Czech)
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Google translate: English)

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  Koen G > 24-08-2022, 09:28 AM

  "The method of encoding is so difficult that even the author himself would not be able to read his texts without the image. "
  
  This feels familiar to those who have seen a lot of VM translations. It usually means that the translator takes a lot of liberties and squeezes a pseudo-meaning out of the text through interpretative steps. This means that the results cannot be repeated.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  Ruby Novacna > 24-08-2022, 10:53 AM

  Irena Hanzikova has been mentioned several times since 2016, including on this forum, but only now am I seeing her blog, thanks Codix.
  Unfortunately I couldn't find any explanations of her translations. If you have seen them, please tell me on which page.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  RobGea > 24-08-2022, 04:28 PM

  Firstly, i hope Irena Hanzíková is in good health because she has not updated her site in over a year and this has become a source of some 'lively' comments on the guestbook page.
  
  Regarding the translations, this is what i could gather but perhaps someone may find an explanation of her translations in the multiple videos or tucked away on the website.
  
  google translate quotes from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

  Quote:Czech clergyman Jiří III. wrote the text [ VMS ] in his native language, using his own alphabet.

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  

  Quote:All characters of the alphabet invented and used by the author[of the VMS] have multiple meanings
  and each character has a different number of meanings.
  Nothing has a complete regularity.
  In addition, each page contains ciphers, some have one, others two, three, at most five,
  and there are also exceptional pages that do not contain a cipher.
  
  Ciphers mean a change in the meaning of individual characters,
  and if they are not determined correctly, it is not possible to read the next page.
  It often happens that the same word looks different on different pages.
  To the author who knows his life, his thoughts, the plant will remind him of the written fact."

  
  In addition on page 6 of the guestbook is a post from Irena Hanzíková
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  google translate Quote:
  

  Quote:the drawings of individual flowers (and perhaps other drawings)
  served the author[of the VMS], among other things, as memory aids for re-equipment of a certain experience-inner state."

  
  I can find no mention of what these ciphers are or how they work, nor any tables showing the 'characters' and their equivalent 'meanings',
  nor any explanation of the VMS authors purported mnenomic devices.
  
  Previous mentions on this forum for Irena Hanzíková
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  [and this for completeness] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  RobGea > 24-08-2022, 07:41 PM

  To address Codix's post more explicitly.
  
  

  (24-08-2022, 08:36 AM)Codix Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you heard about her before?

  - No
  
  

  (24-08-2022, 08:36 AM)Codix Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you think about her story?

  
  VMS Author:
  -  Historically attested [ Bonus point]
  -  Active years [died in 1419, you could argue that some folios are outside this date but overall 1419 is ok, just]
  -  Reason for VMS obfuscation [ Clergyman comes to differt opinions about religion than that of his church: valid]
  -  Reason for creation of VMS [ None given that i could find]
  
  VMS Text method:
  - The method proposed is so complicated that without seeing it demonstrated preferably for the entire corpus of 'de-obfuscated' folios
    then the  question of 'successful de-obfuscation' is unable to be resolved.
  
  - Ciphers are algorithmic ( no freedom ) though you can use and choose more than 1
  - Character-mappings are algorithmic but you can choose what maps to what ( a little freedom ) and also use more than 1
  - Mnenomic devices are subjective ( lots of freedom ), though they should have some consistency
  
  - With all that freedom of interpretation without details of the ciphers, mappings of VMS glyphs to czech letters, Mnenomic devices and their respective modes of deployment
    then the so-called 'translation' of the VMS becomes just a story.
  
  VMS Images*:
  - Herbal : about the Author himself ,relating to the 'I'
  - Circular : pages with circular images , revolve around Gods message(s)
  - Pharma,Balneo,Stars(aka Recipes) Sections : not translated yet.
  
  - Quite exactly why these image subjects were chosen to be drawn by the VMS author seems not to be explained
  
  * Big pinch of salt here, this is not very clear to me at all.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  Koen G > 25-08-2022, 04:17 PM

  I was about to start issuing warnings to Josef Zlatoděj, but given his rapid descent into overt racism, a ban seemed in order. All OT posts have been removed from this thread, please stay on topic now.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 25-08-2022, 04:30 PM

  I suppose if the VM were written in the Old Czeck lnguage, it would be understood in Bohemia and the scholars would not need to send it to Kircher to figure out the language and writing. Both Czeck 'translators' claim to decipher the VM, and that nobody else but them can read it, which sounds very suspicious. While the illustrations  are open for speculation  and interpretation (as any good art is), the text cannot be transformed into one's own poem, story, saying or whatever. While it is true that the text by the flowers might be poems, and that poems might be a coded messages for something else (by coded, I mean that they might have a double meaning, one realistic and one abstract), this would need to be explained and supported by vocabulary and grammar. Both Czeck 'translators' fail this test, since they offer no intermediate steps to show how they substituted the VM text with their own creation which they claim to be a translation of a particular real author's work. Did those authors write any other work? What alphabet did they use? What religion did they practice? Why would they write in code, if they were transmitting God's messages intended for all people on earth?  At the time the VM was written, Checks were already using Latin letters for their language, they had a well developed grammar written by Jan Hus, and they had many manuscripts written in Czeck language. Any good VM researcher would first compare that writing and the language from those books with the text in the VM.
  Because of the similarity of Slovenian and Czeck language, I am able to understand  that general ideas in Irena H. videos, particularly how eager her proposed author, George of Luxembourg, was to spread the good news of Jesus' second coming was. As a Tridentine bishop, he would not use some complicated code to share that with people. 
  
  I am not criticizing their own creative work, inspired by the VM, I just have great misgivings that their work represents translation of the VM.

• RE: Irena Hanzíková - Translations

  Codix > 25-08-2022, 11:14 PM

  (25-08-2022, 04:30 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Both Czeck 'translators' fail this test, since they offer no intermediate steps to show how they substituted the VM text with their own creation which they claim to be a translation of a particular real author's work.

  
  In my opinion to claim that you deciphered or translated the manuscript without showing the step-by-step process nor the results for others to review is a bit suspicious. It's like hanging on to a solution that you don't want anyone to disprove nor criticize because it might fall apart. So many have claimed to have translated it in many different ways and languages and they cannot all be right. So I ask each one of them: How can you be so sure that you are right and everyone else is mistaken?
  
  
  

  (25-08-2022, 04:30 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why would they write in code, if they were transmitting God's messages intended for all people on earth? [...] As a Tridentine bishop, he would not use some complicated code to share that with people.

  
  This is also a point that looks somewhat inconsistent. Irena says that he first part about plants it more like a private diary about the authors feelings and emotions and that each plant represents these. Then later on [the author] describes his encounter with God or something along those lines in the astrological section.
  
  It's very uncommon or rather odd that an old manuscript which is very expensive and time consuming to produce was meant to be just some sort of secret private diary or account or personal happenings that was not supposed to be read by no one else. Is there any record of a full manuscript from that era to be produced to conceal private secrets rather than to share important knowledge? I am no expert in the field but I'd think this to be very unlikely.
  
  Even the fact of encoding your own text for it to be unreadable for anyone else the fact that you are writing it down is because you plan to be able to access its contents yourself. According to Irena the translation of each page is so time consuming (up to days or weeks) and cannot be done without the help of the image (I don't know what she refers to here) so I wonder of what use is such a strong encoding that it would take yourself incredibly long to be able to read your own information whenever you need to access it.
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