- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
Who holds pears like that?!
- Who holds pears like that?!
-
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
MichelleL11 > 22-11-2020, 06:11 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
More on pears, contraception, and infidelity in medieval times.
Thus, a possible hypothesis is that the pears (both on the wall decorations and held by the other “attendant?” woman) symbolize the infidelity and, possibly, failed contraception attempt that resulted in Galahad being born. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
Koen G > 22-11-2020, 07:34 PM
That seems like a good possibility. In the Tacuinum also, the way the pears held by the woman are grouped can be seen as suggestive. Similar to the famous marginal illustrations of nuns picking the fruits of the phallus tree, but then as a more subtle joke in a fruit picking image. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
MarcoP > 22-11-2020, 10:08 PM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems to be close to the text in BNF Fr.343.
Rough transcription of the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
[Q]vant cil de la sale virent seoir le chevalier ou
siege qe tant prendome avoiz monte
dont maintes grandes auentures estoient aue
nues.
This matches the bottom of Comfort's p.13:
Now when those in the hall saw the knight sitting in the seat which so many worthy men had feared and which had given rise to so many great adventures,
The bottom of 3v:
[Q]vant li rois ot mangie et li compagnons
de la table reonde si se leuerent de
leur siege.
This matches Comfort's p.15 middle:
When the king and the companions of the Round Table had dined, they rose from their places.
A possible candidate for the illustration at 3v is this passage, which, as Michelle suggested, makes the queen of the woman in blue and also explains the pointing gesture of the man (Comfort p.14):
The news travelled so quickly that the queen who was dining in her apartment heard it from a valet who said to her: “Lady, wondrous things are happening here.” “How is that?” she inquired; “tell me about it.” “Truly, lady,” he replied, “a knight has come to court who has accomplished the adventure of the Perilous Seat, and he is such a young man that everyone is wondering whence the power to do so came to him.”
...
la roine qe as chambres manoit en oi
parlez par un valet qi li dit dame mer-
uelles sunt avenuez leenz. Comant set
ele dile moi par foi dame uns chevaliers est
a cort venuz qi a acomplee la venture del
siege perileus et est chevaliers si iounes hons qe
toz li mondes sen merveille dont celle grace
li puet estre venue.
Galahad pulling the sword from the stone is illustrated in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
Koen G > 22-11-2020, 11:02 PM
Thanks, Michelle and Marco! So maybe the other two figures are gossips?
The weapon he is carrying when talking to the queen is probably a rondel dagger. Or maybe a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Here's one based on a mid-15th c. example from the Talhoffer fightbook: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
MichelleL11 > 23-11-2020, 12:34 AM
Ah, well - l gave it a shot. Could be the queen was just dining on pears. But it is an interesting choice, given the known associations with that fruit at the time as described in the paper discussing Chaucer’s use of pear - and the circumstances surrounding the origins of the topic of the conversation, Galahad.
And you have to admit the way the “gossip” is holding the pear is pretty suggestive and certainly not required if it’s just a meal that is meant. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
bi3mw > 23-11-2020, 01:22 PM
Here is an illustration showing a man in a frivolous pose with a fruit very similar to that in Koen's Post 31. The source of the picture could not be determined, but I assume that it is from the Tacuinum Sanitatis.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
edit: I have found the source:
BNF, Albucasis, first half of the 15th century, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
-JKP- > 27-11-2020, 01:55 PM
The plant between them is Hyssop. It was usually prescribed for the liver or the lungs. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
Koen G > 20-02-2025, 03:35 PM
Is anyone able to read what's going on here? I haven't found a better version of the image yet. It appears to be an illustration of one of the "wondrous people" with an attribute. From Stuttgart, Württembergische Landesbibliothek, Cod. med. et phys. 2º 15.
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
-
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
MarcoP > 20-02-2025, 05:45 PM
Hi Koen, the text is transcribed in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., thesis by Peter Stahl (p.174). These are the two paragraphs before and after the illustration. My guess is that the illustration shows a leper holding a clapper (paragraph 28).
Quote:27. [Abb.] Es sind och ettliche lút, die so groß höfer haben, also alles das jn merung des libs wachsen söllte, das nympt oder zúcht der hofer an sich. Vnd darvmb sind sy klain als die zwerg.
28. [Abb.] Vss stummen vnd ongehörenden werden kind geporn, vss vsse- czigen werden vsseczige kind geporn, doch nitt vss blinden blind noch vss ainöcken ainöcke kind.
Machine translation:
Quote:27. [Illustration] There are also some people who have such large goiters that everything that should be nourishment of the body is taken up or absorbed by the goiter. And therefore, they are as small as dwarves.
28. [Illustration] Mute and deaf parents give birth to mute and deaf children; lepers give birth to leprous children. However, blind people do not necessarily give birth to blind children, nor do one-eyed people give birth to one-eyed children. -
RE: Who holds pears like that?!
Aga Tentakulus > 20-02-2025, 06:06 PM
The description of the text fon Marco,
‘There are also some people who have such a large goitre that everything that is supposed to be food for the body is absorbed or ingested by the goitre.’
Which is nonsense, of course.
Refers to this disease. Deficiency symptom.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.