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No text, but a visual code
- No text, but a visual code
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RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 11-12-2020, 05:26 PM
You are right DONJCH. Although at each point of the star there are three lines, in the tube there are groups with more. The most common thing in the Middle Ages was to indicate all the degrees of the sphere, as we see in this volvelle from wikipedia.
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The grouping of three in three strokes that we see repeated in various parts of the VM imagery makes me suspect lines with a value of 5º to represent one hour.[/font]
The big question is: are those lines the glyph that looks like the letter i that we see in the VM script?
To answer this, the first thing is to ask: why is the glyph of the script not a vertical line but is inclined as if it were inscribed in a sphere? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 13-12-2020, 09:32 AM
I think I found the origin of the glyph transliterated as letter (n) in Eva alphabet. The very common vord (daiin) is actually (daiii), since the (n) is a tail in the last (i) to represent an arc of the sphere.
This is the proof of what I say:
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In this astronomical table of a medieval book we see two small inclined lines above the letters that represent degrees (G) and minutes (M). Now we use the marks (º) for degrees, (') minutes and ('') seconds, but in thee Middle Ages two ('') were used for all angular measurements. It was just a symbolic way of representing marks of the sphere.
In the example that I have put, you can see how a tail rises in some of the second inclined lines. Can be seen on other pages of the codex. Is a symbol of the arc of the sphere.
On this page where there is also a column for arc seconds you can see the tail very clearly
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In Eva-r of the VM script the tail of the inclined line starts from above, perhaps signifying a different position in the sphere than the one marked by Eva-n -
RE: No text, but a visual code
-JKP- > 13-12-2020, 09:43 AM
It is possible that it is "i" with a tail (in fact I lean toward this interpretation for reasons I've described in a draft blog that I haven't had time to post yet).
My reason for thinking that it might be a minim with a tail is a little different from yours, but at least we agree on the possible transliteration of the shape. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Koen G > 13-12-2020, 09:58 AM
The reason why I hope EVA-n is actually EVA-i with a tail is because otherwise it is 100 percent redundant. If it completes the minim sequence, it would still make some sense.
(how different would we think about Voynichese if n were represented by another i ?) -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Helmut Winkler > 13-12-2020, 11:15 AM
@ Koen
I think your hope is not in in vain. EVA-n is a minim, in this case an i with a horizontal abbreviation stroke. If you accept the fact that 'Voynichese' is Latin script and language you can rea the sequence of glyphs as aui with an abbr. strolke, which is short for Avicenna, which makes a lot of sense in the context of a Herbal, especially if you read the 8, EVA-d as d with an apostrophe, d', another common abbreviation stroke, as dicit, then you have d'aui-, meaning dicit Auicenna.
I would be glad to hear your opinion -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Koen G > 13-12-2020, 01:19 PM
I like this idea, this kind of shorthand for names of authorities would fit well in this context. And I'm completely on board with the assumption that Voynichese is largely based on Latin scribal conventions. The [aiin]-group is also written separately, which would further support the "d'avi"-hypothesis.
Where it gets tricky is when you consider an entire paragraph. Take the first two lines of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for example:
Quote:P' auicenna dicit auicenna word word word dicit auicenna word word [ain]
dicit [ain] dicit auicenna word word [cho iin] word [cho]dicit auicenna word dicit auicenna
This seems to be much more frequent than regular referencing, right? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
ReneZ > 13-12-2020, 02:33 PM
(13-12-2020, 09:32 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think I found the origin of the glyph transliterated as letter (n) in Eva alphabet. The very common vord (daiin) is actually (daiii), since the (n) is a tail in the last (i) to represent an arc of the sphere.
I think that this is entirely possible. In fact, the early transliterations by FSG and Currier just treat this n as another minim.
But what should one then think of r in the cases of ir and iir ? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Helmut Winkler > 13-12-2020, 03:11 PM
This seems to be much more frequent than regular referencing, right?
Right, of course and I am far from pretending I understand everything. But I think it is a better approach than ciphre cracking, and there are other abbr. which make sense, e-g. 4o, which could easily be a q(uod) o(mittit) -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Helmut Winkler > 13-12-2020, 03:14 PM
But what should one then think of r in the cases of ir and iir ?
EVA-r looks very much like an Arab numeral and I am thinking of reference to a book II of something, in the context at first of Avicenna; Canon, whose Book II is on the Simplicia -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Koen G > 13-12-2020, 03:29 PM
(13-12-2020, 03:11 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But I think it is a better approach than ciphre cracking
Definitely, this approach has potential. And it would solve many problems. A sequence like "daiin dain" would be expanded as "aui~ says and aii~ says".
Common glyph order would be explained by syntax, i.e. word order in abbreviated phrases. And the lack of recurring phrases in Voynichese would be solved, since common phrases are reduced to "words". Suddenly d-aiin is the kind of phrase we are despreately looking for.