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No text, but a visual code
- No text, but a visual code
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RE: No text, but a visual code
Koen G > 19-01-2024, 09:37 AM
I do not wish it to remain a mystery either - the desire to learn what this manuscript is all about is what drove me to study it in the first place. But we must remain vigilant that this desire for answers does not cause us to accept solutions too quickly.
On your plant ID proposals, three things:
- I fully agree that there are many aspects of real plants in these drawings. The are either based on real plant observations or drawings thereof, or both. The manuscript was made on Earth and clearly influenced by flora known to 15th century Europe (through observation, trade and tradition).
- But, for every plant you can identify with some certainty, there are three more where everyone disagrees, or where the image is a botanically impossible mess.
- Moreover, even identifiable plants have some really strange things going on. For example, your Viola odorata has three thick, tree-like stems with strange leaf balls in between, almost looking like an architectural feature. Which botanist, seeing this and the three spiky roots, will say "ah yes, clearly Viola odorata"?
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RE: No text, but a visual code
Aga Tentakulus > 19-01-2024, 12:39 PM
The botanist would say, even if the plant comes back next year after a straight cut above the root. They are not spines either, they are the beginnings of dead leaves.
If there are several leaves behind each other, they also have several stems.
And there are always people who mistake a pea for a coconut just because it is green.
But yes, definitely an odorata. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 19-01-2024, 07:32 PM
I have no problem accepting that some of the Voynich herbs reflect real plants. What I have no doubt about is that this was not the authors' objective when making this book.
Thinking that this wonderful book is a collection of diverse topics that have been united in a kind of medieval encyclopedia is the biggest mistake you can make. Although I could not convince anyone of my theory, I would only ask that there be agreement on one thing, to accept that this book is a unity and that from its first page to the last its message is the same: how celestial influences are the cause of the medicinal properties of herbs. Pure Aristotelianism. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
R. Sale > 20-01-2024, 12:31 AM
Surely no one would have called it 'Viola odorata' because we're pre-Linnaean. So, what was it called in VMs dates?
Here's a guide to medieval names. Violet is "Our Lady's Modesty".
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Do similar religious implications carry over into the medieval, common names in other European languages?
Could this be another critter in the botanical bestiary? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
R. Sale > 20-01-2024, 01:09 AM
Hey, posting again just to show how little time it takes to find an "imaginative" explanation.
Google translates 'Our Lady's Modesty' as 'La modestia della Madonna' in Italian.
[Versus Notre-Dame or Lieben Frau]
So, there are the fused initials [MM] that Koen highlighted in pink.
Obviously, it still needs to be determined that this is linguistically valid in the medieval vernacular, but it is the same type of "rebus reading" that was used for VMs costmary and it is yet another religious interpretation in the VMs that is compatible with medieval Mariology.
PS: Better yet is the Latin: Mariae Modestiae! -
RE: No text, but a visual code
nablator > 20-01-2024, 11:28 AM
(20-01-2024, 01:09 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Obviously, it still needs to be determined that this is linguistically valid in the medieval vernacular, but it is the same type of "rebus reading" that was used for VMs costmary and it is yet another religious interpretation in the VMs that is compatible with medieval Mariology.
Not found in this good source for old common names of plants in all European languages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
R. Sale > 20-01-2024, 08:21 PM
A number of internet references confirm that the name "Our Lady's Modesty" is a reference to the violet. Questions of when and where remain to be determined and cross-language interpretation to Latin is also problematic.
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"In the Middle Ages, Christians directly linked it to the Virgin Mary, giving it the name "Our Lady's Modesty."
The list of names for Viola odorata in Post #1,236 doesn't seem to make much use of any Christian onomatology that would be similar to "Our Lady's Modesty" in any language. I find only one reference [page 169, #11] regarding "Oloron Sainte-Marie" - which is the name of a commune. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 22-01-2024, 05:48 PM
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Look at this image, the outer ring with small circles followed by glyphs of the Voynich script.
A question I've been asking myself since I started researching VM:
Are those small circles mere decorations or are they the same ones we normally see in the script and which is the most repeated glyph? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
R. Sale > 22-01-2024, 10:18 PM
Yet another visual code is revealed in the VMs botanical bestiary in post #1,231 and hidden structure in the illustration of the violet. The code is provided through the names of plants found in what was known as a "Mary Garden". In addition to scientific names and common names, across the various languages, certain plants also were given their "Christian" names. Specifically in the case of the violet, 'Our Lady's Modesty' is the most common English rendition, but alternate possibilities occur, such as 'Mary's Modesty', which manifests the double 'M' [MM], that is found in Italian and Latin.
As Koen has shown in his post, the double 'M' structure is part of the VMs violet illustration. The circular parts, however, contain foliage and foliage is not structural. It is part of the camouflage. The artist is "hiding" the double 'M' [MM] initial in the violet illustration, which has the "Christian" name 'Mariae Modestiae" in modern Latin.
Unfortunately, I "*could not find any definitive source to confirm this.*" - but it seems reasonable; it is valid Latin and the history of the "Mary Garden" goes back to Saint Fiacre in the 7th century.
The visual code for the violet is not in its common name, but in its "Christian" name, 'Mary's Modesty'. And the primary story here is the one relating to the humility of the Virgin Mary in the visitation by the angel, Gabriel, which is the Annunciation.
Also recall the recent ninja investigation of VMs costmary in terms of its "Christian" name, "Herb of the Virgin". The VMs illustration is drawn with roots like wings, in reference to Saint Michael, who, in his role as psychopomp or 'guide of souls', is present at Mary's Assumption.
Using the standard interpretations of the "Mary Garden" listing, the VMs present the Annunciation and the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, according to medieval, "Christian" botanical naming traditions. If that isn't semaphore, what is??
