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RE: No text, but a visual code

R. Sale > 14-05-2023, 05:52 PM

Can nine women in a pool be interpreted as the Muses? Compare the structure of the pool with Pizan. Both show the use of an arcaded pattern. The VMs is only partial and subtle in its ambiguous representation, as the intent is not to impart information to the reader, but to require information from the reader in order to understand the illustrations.

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RE: No text, but a visual code

bi3mw > 14-05-2023, 08:11 PM

(14-05-2023, 05:52 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Manuscript Miniatures: The Book of the Queen

This is obviously not @Antonio García Jiménez interpretation, but in an edition of the text it says (snippet):

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Quote:What you will hear me describe:
There I saw nine ladies who had come.
Bathing naked
In the Fountain of Truth
They looked like they had a lot of dignity,
Great prestige and great sense.
I would have liked so much to have learned and discovered
Who they were; moreover I saw
In the air, above the rock,
A great winged horse
Flying around them.
This sight amazed me a lot
And I was even more careful to watch
The places and paths covered with flowers,
More beautiful and the lanes greener than those
Around the fountain.
........

So the "great winged horse" seems to be important to the scene.
RE: No text, but a visual code

R. Sale > 14-05-2023, 10:33 PM

I would say that it is the purpose of VMs ambiguity to create a place between "Yes, it clearly must be." and "No, it absolutely cannot be.", which is "Perhaps, it might be." The intent is to provide just enough confirmation to be suggestive of the proposed interpretation for those already familiar with the chosen topic, rather than providing the overwhelming and unequivocal evidence needed to convince an unfamiliar researcher.

Pegasus would surely be overwhelming. But look at the artwork used to represent the incised arches of the arcaded pattern. It is clear in Pizan, sort of tucked away in the VMs, but is there any other similar example in the VMs? I looked but haven't found any, while there are pools with blank sides on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f81v.

The women number nine. That is the first connection to the Muses. The pool has an arcaded pattern. That is an independent second connection. Just not the one expected.
RE: No text, but a visual code

Antonio García Jiménez > 15-05-2023, 10:09 AM

This work by Christine de Pizan is contemporary with the VM, so it is natural that their illustrations have something in common. What unites both works is the use of allegory, which is omnipresent in medieval culture. We see nine naked women in a pool illustrating Pizan's work just as we see naked women in a pool in the Voynich. But in both cases it is not a matter of flesh and blood women but of allegories, of spirits. In one case of the muses and in the other of the spirit of the fixed stars.

Understanding this is essential to interpret Quire 13 of the VM. It is not a biological or balneological section, but simply astrological, which is consistent with the rest of the book.
RE: No text, but a visual code

nablator > 15-05-2023, 10:55 AM

(14-05-2023, 08:11 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So the "great winged horse" seems to be important to the scene.

The flying horse identifies the fountain and the muses' Mount Helicon.

Wikipedia Wrote:Pegasus is the creator of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the fountain on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

@R. Sale
The link to Christine de Pizan's book is far from clear, because the arches are only visible in the BL Harley 4431 ms.
RE: No text, but a visual code

Antonio García Jiménez > 15-05-2023, 04:35 PM

I believe that more than the mythological story what matters are both illustrations that are contemporary.

We have the miniature of Pizan's book:

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And we have this image of the Voynich:

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The coincidence of the arches is an iconographic feature that shows a water source. In the case of Pizan's book we know it because it is written in the work and the myth tells it that way. In the case of the VM, the interpretation is more difficult but it could allude to the origin of the water, which comes down from the sky through the pipes that we see.

What I think is safest is the interpretation of the female figures. In both cases they are allegories, either of the muses or of astral influences.
RE: No text, but a visual code

R. Sale > 15-05-2023, 06:07 PM

"Far from clear" is certainly valid. That is the difference between subtle hints and obvious demonstrations. The arcaded arches are clear in Pizan, but more subtle and only partial in VMs f78v.

A similar situation occurs in the comparison of the VMs cosmos with the cosmic illustration in BNF Fr. 565. "565" clearly has 43 undulations in the outer cosmic boundary, while the VMs has 43 whole or partial undulations in a cosmic boundary interrupted by connections of the eight curved spokes of the outer wheel.

Obvious demonstrations in the 'historical' manuscripts versus subtle hints and ambiguity in the VMs.

Also of interest is the historical provenance. "565" made in Paris c. 1410. "4431" made in Paris before 1414. Along with BL Harley 334, which has relevant cosmic illustrations, along with a mermaid and her companions, also from Paris, a bit later. To me, this looks like the VMs artist had a familiarity with various items produced in Paris in the first half of the 15th century, which corresponds with the VMs C-14 dating. Consequently, the VMs investigator must try to develop a similar level of familiarity in order to interpret the subtleties of the VMs illustrations.
RE: No text, but a visual code

Antonio García Jiménez > 15-05-2023, 09:39 PM

With such subtlety we run the risk of not seeing what is essential and what is in front of our eyes: that in both images we see women who are not women
RE: No text, but a visual code

Antonio García Jiménez > 18-05-2023, 07:34 PM

In each of the signs of the zodiacal section, each of the 30 female figures holds a star. It is a way of identifying oneself, of saying: we are the fixed stars that occupy the 30 degrees of this sign.

There is no contemporary parallel, but there are illustrations showing the seven medieval planets holding a star as a means of identification. It is the case of this manuscript:

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It seems obvious, but it does not seem that there is yet a broad consensus on something that appeals to common sense.
RE: No text, but a visual code

R. Sale > 21-05-2023, 07:11 PM

That's an interesting illustration, but what is the source and provenance?
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