[split] Color annotations?

[Davidsch]

@JKP, I think we should only compare the letters in the VMS itself; because as this forum shows clearly by now, you can find anything on the internet if you want to that looks similar to anything.

Please compare the "v", the "r" and the "p" on 116v with the letter of 29r, of which we can perhaps agree that those letters (on 116v) correspond to the handwriting in the other pages of the VMS perfectly.     (To me it helped to make an entirely different transcript of 116v, and it also shows that you need to compare letters and not go on instinct alone. But that is outside this thread)

[Helmut Winkler]

It is one of these old wives tales of Voynich mythology that Voynichese is an unknown script. One of the few ways to crack the manuscript is to accept that it is a 15th century Gothic script and of course we must compare the Voynich script with contemporary script, as we compare the images with contemporary illustrations

[-JKP-]

Davidsch: Please compare the "v", the "r" and the "p" on 116v with the letter of 29r, of which we can perhaps agree that those letters (on 116v) correspond to the handwriting in the other pages of the VMS perfectly.     (To me it helped to make an entirely different transcript of 116v, and it also shows that you need to compare letters and not go on instinct alone. But that is outside this thread)

These were common forms of "r" in Gothic cursive script of the late medieval times, the hook-r (narrow, wide, and footed) and humped. All the rest are variations of these basic types. I make an effort to sample letters from words where there is no doubt about which letter it is:




I don't think the marginalia corresponds to the other pages of the VMS perfectly. I do think the marginalia on 116v is the same hand as the marginalia at the top of another page and also the marginalia next to the sick prone person with the pot.

The other hands are the same style (Gothic cursive) but not the same handwriting.

...and it also shows that you need to compare letters and not go on instinct alone.

I do not go on instinct. I have studied handwriting and calligraphy for many years.

[-JKP-]

It is one of these old wives tales of Voynich mythology that Voynichese is an unknown script. One of the few ways to crack the manuscript is to accept that it is a 15th century Gothic script and of course we must compare the Voynich script with contemporary script, as we compare the images with contemporary illustrations

I completely agree with this.

[Davidsch]

Thank you. Seeing this high res. image of 29r, and your examples, I stand corrected and agree it is indeed an r. And probably intended for color annotation as mentioned before.

[-JKP-]

The idea that it is color annotation is indeed speculative, especially since the underlying language would affect its interpretation, but since there is green painted over "g", bluish painted over something that might be "por" (which is purple in several languages), and browns and reddish-browns painted over something that looks like "r", it seems like a reasonable possibility.

[-JKP-]

Compare with the "r" on page f20r.

Wladimir. I don't think this is an "r". When "r" had a curled tail, it was always much longer and higher. I'm pretty sure this is the letter "p". If you look closely at the scan, there's a faint bar across the top of it that looks like a pen skip. But even if it's not a pen skip, it was quite common for "p" to be written this way (with a gap). Here are some quick examples:

[Koen G]

Would anyone really spontaneously classify the color of this root as red or even reddish? I could understand brown, yellow, gold or light beige. That gives plenty of possible color terms to try, but red seems like a stretch.

[-JKP-]

No, actually, this one looks more amber to me, that faded color that may have been amber at one time (or something light brown perhaps, but probably not reddish unless it's significantly faded).

[Diane]

Yes, it does look like the 'p' is some Latin manuscripts.  And like the letter tsade and others again.  Presuming it must be German has led to a lot of prematurely applied limits to investigation, imo.