(Today, 04:18 AM)proto57 wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mr. Ova Yolk: I didn't want you to think I had walked away from this line of conversation. As I said it is not something I had paid a great deal of attention to, in the past. But you make good points, and I wanted to fill myself in on this whole "month names" story... what everyone else has said about it, what we know, what we don't, and how it affects my own ideas, any everyone's, for better or worse.
I mean it is definitely an issue... I haven't been ignoring because I thought it was an issue, but just because I had not explored it much.
So I have actually been spending a great deal of my spare time in working on this. I have discovered that the reality of the "octēbre" situation is fascinating in its own right. I'm not quite finished, but I'm getting there... I hope. But like many things like this, I've found that what people think they know about it is very different than the reality of it, when you begin to dig deeper and deeper.
In any case, for one thing, that Picard Astrolabe, which of course David King was writing about in 2001. You may know this, already, but I'm not sure... because there are many discussions on the Ninja's and elsewhere, and unless I am wrong... and someone here please correct me because I would like to see ANY examples of octēbre... but there seems to be NO examples of it other than in the Voynich, and engraved on the Picard Astrolabe. None.
What I discovered is that any examples of it are assumed... that is, the form "Octembre" is of course well known but not with the short hand bar for the "em" sound, written octēbre. Apparently, because the bar was not typeset, it was assumed that if you saw "Octembre", that it must have meant a transcriber for print... a typesetter... had seen a manuscript octēbre, and typeset it as "octember", knowing the conventions. But that, while we see many Octembres, I don't think there are actually any known written octēbre's. But I mean this: If I am wrong (I'm still climbing a steep learning curve on these month names), please forgive my ignorance, and point me to it.
It's no problem at all! If you haven't seen it already, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. contains almost all of the things that we/I have found about this. A ctrl+f on there will show any of the forms found so far.
As for the zodiac signs, this has become a big project for me. The link in my signature is to a spreadsheet where 100s of zodiac signs from 100s of sources are displayed and rated to find the most similar to the VMS (printed works are included, mostly from the 16thC). The discussion thread for the spreadsheet is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., along with a new You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread and the existing You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread (whose spreadsheet I integrated and expanded upon). At this point, the vast majority of what has been mentioned before will have been added there. I also track the context in which they appear, attempt to link together related works/copies, as well as tracking other certain VMS-like imagery that occur within the source. It's why I know we haven't seen any lobsters connected like pisces
octēbre with a macron has indeed been found a bunch of times. It is quite a lot rarer than octembre, which is quite common to find. I'm actually not sure i've come across any 15-16th century printed octembres either, for what it's worth. I haven't been tracking whether entries are printed or written, but I think all of the ones i've seen have been written. I would have to check.
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(note that the last two are octēbres, but are found in a context where all of the month names appear to end in s for some reason)
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