30-08-2025, 09:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 30-08-2025, 09:37 PM by Bluetoes101.)
On searching it looks like Marco clarified the latin use of "N/NN" a few years back on another post regarding "+N"
But here are some other examples I stumbled on in charms
+ And [entering] with them into the house of Simon Peter, Jesus saw his [Peter’s] kinswoman lying sick and feverish. But standing over her he called out the fever and immediately it departed and she served Him. Syon + Syon + Syon. In memory of your beloved son, ruler of the world, free .N.
“as the wax melts, let N. melt”
The capital N (or NN) was for Nomen/Nomen Nominandum - A name to be named
("portas+N+")
That paired with info like the below, makes me think it's a 15c "charm" with pseudo-nonsense stuff mixed with intelligible speech.
Trying to read it coherently or place it, is probably akin to working out the words the magician said to make the rabbit come out the hat. shazzam!
"4.3.2. Magic nonsense
Once the performer has accomplished the ritual and repeated the charm three times, he must also repeat a set of words and names (Ysaac bapsiul afilo anaba floch bilo ylo, lines 26-32 of f. 165vb). This particular sequence, also known as voces magicae, is in fact a sequence of words having no relation to the language of the text in which they appear. And even if the modern linguists can trace some of them back to Greek or Hebrew, their importance in the charm lies not in their actual meaning, but in their supposed magical power. The use of gibberish formulas was very common in ancient Greek and Latin charms, but it is seldom used in Old High German charms. The number of gibberish formulas increases only after the 13th century, when also the number and the types of charms transcribed in manuscripts increases. As Passalis (2012) points out, nonsense or pseudo-nonsense words are very common in charms and are usually mixed with intelligible speech. In the Pervinca charm we might recognise some names such as Ysaac, Adonay, Eloy, Iesu, but the other words are probably distorted names of some ancient deity."
But here are some other examples I stumbled on in charms
+ And [entering] with them into the house of Simon Peter, Jesus saw his [Peter’s] kinswoman lying sick and feverish. But standing over her he called out the fever and immediately it departed and she served Him. Syon + Syon + Syon. In memory of your beloved son, ruler of the world, free .N.
“as the wax melts, let N. melt”
The capital N (or NN) was for Nomen/Nomen Nominandum - A name to be named
("portas+N+")
That paired with info like the below, makes me think it's a 15c "charm" with pseudo-nonsense stuff mixed with intelligible speech.
Trying to read it coherently or place it, is probably akin to working out the words the magician said to make the rabbit come out the hat. shazzam!
"4.3.2. Magic nonsense
Once the performer has accomplished the ritual and repeated the charm three times, he must also repeat a set of words and names (Ysaac bapsiul afilo anaba floch bilo ylo, lines 26-32 of f. 165vb). This particular sequence, also known as voces magicae, is in fact a sequence of words having no relation to the language of the text in which they appear. And even if the modern linguists can trace some of them back to Greek or Hebrew, their importance in the charm lies not in their actual meaning, but in their supposed magical power. The use of gibberish formulas was very common in ancient Greek and Latin charms, but it is seldom used in Old High German charms. The number of gibberish formulas increases only after the 13th century, when also the number and the types of charms transcribed in manuscripts increases. As Passalis (2012) points out, nonsense or pseudo-nonsense words are very common in charms and are usually mixed with intelligible speech. In the Pervinca charm we might recognise some names such as Ysaac, Adonay, Eloy, Iesu, but the other words are probably distorted names of some ancient deity."