(08-01-2025, 09:42 AM)nablator wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All the details are different. It's not even a coincidence because literally nothing is the same.
I never expected to see anything so unconvincing from you.
You don't get it. This MS was made in the 1450's, the VM was made earlier. The details have to be different. It's impossible for them to be the same. The Karlsruhe MS is the umpteenth iteration of this set of images, while those in the VM were much closer to the source, whatever that is.
If there is anything you can be certain of, it's that a medieval copyist will update figures' dress and attributes. Attributes are part of the fashion. They were expected to change those details. The old woman's stick and chain are different because copyists over the decades would have to change these to whatever they thought their audience was most familiar with.
These manuscripts were part of popular, vulgarizing traditions. There must have been hundreds of them out there, all with different details. But the sequence is what makes the tradition, the illustrative programme. And it is clear that the VM artists consulted a MS with this illustrative programme, which explains the sequence of Summer - Autumn - Uroscopy.
The doctor's scull caps stay the same: it's a long-standing, traditional marker of the profession. The hunched-over pose of the old woman stays the same. But the details are different.
Edit: Marco just posted that it's probably earlier, but the point remains. These image sequences were part of a vast network, and we expect details to be adjusted. Attributes are part of fashion.
I've always been a bit cautious about Ewa Sniezynska-Stolot's commentary on the VM, because I don't agree with her narrow geographical determination. But this quote is interesting in how to separate the traditional from the "updated" elements:
Quote:I have inspected the VMS at Beinecke. The signs of the Zodiac do not present problems – they are simply not of the Arateia type but were modernized. As I wrote in my books, because of linguistic mistakes and changes in artistic styles, human figures were represented in contemporary garments (viz. Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius). Attributes were changed in the same way, eg. Sagittarius’ bow developed into a crossbow in the 15th c.