19-04-2021, 07:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-04-2021, 07:21 PM by davidjackson.)
OK, keen as I am to push this theory forwards, I think we're getting carried away with the language.
First off, we should be talking about Middle English, not Old English (which is English before the Norman conquest).
Secondly, two languages were spoken in the 15th century - Middle English (the lower classes) and Anglo-French (the ruling class), more properly called Anglo-Norman. Oh, and Latin of course.
By the early 15th century, Middle English was starting to be used by the nobility simply to forge the new independent state of England, they were moving away from Anglo-French, as the two states were in almost perpetual war by this point. The two languages were being heavily influenced by each other, but A-F was becoming an ideal language like Latin, used in administrative and legal situations but not in the home.
So...
It was spelt REI / REY, not ROY in Middle English 15th century texts (see the excellent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for a corpus from the time). Wikipedia also says: "For example, Anglo-Norman legal documents use the phrase "del Rey" (of the king). This is identical to modern Spanish but different from the modern French "du Roi"."
In Middle Engish it is KING (or a close derivative).
I don't think it makes sense to switch between Anglo-Norman and Middle English on the same page, although I'm always open to a suggestion of a pun!
Also, I'm afraid suggesting that somebody wrote "fob sib isib" on a page and expected this to be understood just doesn't work. It's ungrammatical nonsense. Look at the 15th century citation given for the use of the word:
A liar can make a dray cart to lead all these others, as cheaters and vagabonds look most fair when running
sib and isib are basically the same word, used in different contexts.
First off, we should be talking about Middle English, not Old English (which is English before the Norman conquest).
Secondly, two languages were spoken in the 15th century - Middle English (the lower classes) and Anglo-French (the ruling class), more properly called Anglo-Norman. Oh, and Latin of course.
By the early 15th century, Middle English was starting to be used by the nobility simply to forge the new independent state of England, they were moving away from Anglo-French, as the two states were in almost perpetual war by this point. The two languages were being heavily influenced by each other, but A-F was becoming an ideal language like Latin, used in administrative and legal situations but not in the home.
So...
It was spelt REI / REY, not ROY in Middle English 15th century texts (see the excellent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for a corpus from the time). Wikipedia also says: "For example, Anglo-Norman legal documents use the phrase "del Rey" (of the king). This is identical to modern Spanish but different from the modern French "du Roi"."
In Middle Engish it is KING (or a close derivative).
I don't think it makes sense to switch between Anglo-Norman and Middle English on the same page, although I'm always open to a suggestion of a pun!
Also, I'm afraid suggesting that somebody wrote "fob sib isib" on a page and expected this to be understood just doesn't work. It's ungrammatical nonsense. Look at the 15th century citation given for the use of the word:
Quote:Makeþ of lyer a lang cart to lede alle þese oþere, As fobbes [A: fabulers] and faitours þat on hure fet rennen.Which I think means something like
A liar can make a dray cart to lead all these others, as cheaters and vagabonds look most fair when running
sib and isib are basically the same word, used in different contexts.