What does the typical 'e' look like?
Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote:What does the typical 'e' look like?
[
attachment=16100]
heiligen
[
attachment=16102]
gregorius
[
attachment=16103]
ander
The e's have a stroke that curves right and up, the r's have a single stroke going down. I'm quite confident the first letter is an e, and then 'r' is the only reasonable option for the other.
I agree, the first one is most likely e. "Abrril" would have been feasible, I guess, but "abeeil" certainly isn't. So the most logical reading is "aberil".
I'm also a bit surprised about the word-medial "j". Or "i with descender", if you wish. At a glance, it looks like this is the word-initial form.
(20-06-2026, 01:00 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm also a bit surprised about the word-medial "j". Or "i with descender", if you wish. At a glance, it looks like this is the word-initial form.
Just above that there is a Roman numeral "xiij". Perhaps "j" was just a graphic variant of "i"?
-------------------------------------------------[A]
@eggyk amazing work!
Reading the advancement feels like a movie, tracing a "new" mysterious unknown dialect. Knowing the language of this marginalia writer may narrow down the traveling of the manuscript to a zone; we may even be able to ask: why this individual who has this dialect could read or own a voynichess manuscript (was she/he rich?, is it related to the text itself in some manner?); It is super Interesting.
-------------------------------------------------[B]
What if it was intended? maybe there was some kind of reasoning to give each month a name of a particular language.
Or maybe the writer was showing off how many languages she/he knew, and aberil is from a dead dialect without surviving texts.
-------------------------------------------------[C]
It could be a good thing "Aberil" exist. Cause since it is rare, if the exact month sequence is found we can be 99% certain of a geographical zone or dialect and it will also prove a "natural" naming intention on behalf of the marginalia writer. However, if it was a "mistake or bad habit" aberil may not have ever existed.
-------------------------------------------------[D]
This old french dialect does not seems to have witting material, but the words were recorded directly from the natives. You can hear the pronunciation of the words here: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
[
attachment=16130]
January : Zhaanvyii
February : Fevriyii
March : Maar
April : Avrii
Mayo: Mii
June: Jwaen
July: Jooyet
August: Aaoo
September: Septaambr
October: Oktobr
November: Noovaambr
December: Disaambr
(michif is from around 1800s...?)
I'm doing it cause the pronunciation sounds like "iollet" to me. In which case it could mean the source variant of French that was adopted by michif had this "Jooyet" sound. [I'm iletrated on this matter, it just a deduction.]
(21-06-2026, 05:27 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This old french dialect does not seems to have witting material, but the words were recorded directly from the natives.
Natives from Canada.
Michif is a mix of French and Cree. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
With several layers of local variation and adaptation (western France where the ships came from, Native American phonology, centuries of language drift) the relevance is rather low.
(21-06-2026, 02:27 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (20-06-2026, 01:00 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm also a bit surprised about the word-medial "j". Or "i with descender", if you wish. At a glance, it looks like this is the word-initial form.
Just above that there is a Roman numeral "xiij". Perhaps "j" was just a graphic variant of "i"?
I had a look through, and could only find that specific curved 'j' at word beginnings, mainly for proper nouns like names. The j in numerals tend to be a straight descender.
My best guess is that the writer more carefully wrote out each letter (for some reason) and used "capital" letters. Carefulness perhaps because 'aberil hat xxx tag' is a section title, or maybe because he was not familiar with the correct spelling for 'aberil' and had to write letter by letter?
(21-06-2026, 07:27 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With several layers of local variation and adaptation (western France where the ships came from, Native American phonology, centuries of language drift) the relevance is rather low.
I see, i will also stop trying to find 1500+ french manuscripts in Suriname and French Guiana. I have found nothing after 4 hours.... It is easier to discard them tbh. Was hyped up cause in French Guiana there was germany and french ocuppations or something...
man, this stuff is hard...
(21-06-2026, 08:47 AM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My best guess is that the writer more carefully wrote out each letter (for some reason) and used "capital" letters.
The "rule" appears to be that common short words like "in" use regular initial-i, and others get initial-j. For example I've seen a couple of instances of the possessive pronoun "jhren". Also very frequently the abbreviation for "junkfrau". But like you say, it mostly ends up being used in common names
About the careful writing idea, I'm not sure if that holds since in this word, "e" and "r" look more alike than they should. In careful writing, I would expect each to adhere more to its most recognizable form. But maybe some uncertainty is indeed at play, like a scribal stutter. Maybe some tension between spoken dialect and the norm, but that's pure speculation. A very interesting find either way!
Another peculiarity of that "aberil" is that the L is looped. I would say that ~90% of Ls in the ms are not looped (but they tend to be looped in numerals, and they are looped in other words as well, maybe more often at word-end).
EDIT: it's great to have an occurrence of "aberil" from an actual manuscript, well done eggyk!