(28-04-2024, 02:39 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If evidence surfaces that truly contradicts that presumption of authenticity, I will be very happy to revise my opinion.
An open-ended approach is exactly what one would expect from a (scientific) investigation. With Rich's theory I have the impression that it is fixed and that it is only a matter of finding one-sided confirmation. One wonders whether there can be any evidence at all that could at least generate doubt. One can formulate a question to Rich from this: What kind of evidence would you accept to at least consider that the VMS might NOT be a modern forgery ?
I realize that the answer to such a question requires the ability to "look over the fence". But this change of perspective can be expected.
(28-04-2024, 02:39 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Because it is not possible to prove absolutely that something is authentic, the burden of proof rests on the science to prove a manuscript is NOT authentic.
Thanks for that Lisa. This has always been my understanding but I could not have phrased it with any level of authority.
My thoughts have tended to be along the following lines:
Certainly, fakes exist.
However, complete faked manuscripts are rare. Their number is vanishingly small compared to the vast number of genuine manuscripts.
As a result, a manuscript must be considered genuine until proven otherwise.
Some cases of detecting fakes have been well documented and are interesting to read about.
(28-04-2024, 03:03 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, what is a 'red flag'? It should be understood as an indication that something could be wrong.
It is not evidence of a fraud.
All these points can occur for genuine manuscripts as well as for fakes.
It all starts to become 'semantics', but I would say a red flag IS evidence. It's just not proof.
Damage to the O-Rings on the shuttle during various cold launches was not evidence of a failure.
The dang thing still blew up.
Often, it's only afterwards that red flags get recognized as evidence.
(And sometimes, strangely, they even then get graduated to the status of proof -- which tells us a lot about the nature of evidence in general.)
(28-04-2024, 03:13 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. One can formulate a question to Rich from this: What kind of evidence would you accept to at least consider that the VMS might NOT be a modern forgery ?
I suspect this part must be frustrating to Rich, despite his apparent patience. Certainly is to me. He has answered that question over and over again. So how many times does he need to do it?
(28-04-2024, 03:03 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for the reminder about the translations, by the way. I will eventually look at that, but so far I have not seen anything that changes the picture in any way.
Hi Rene,
On a separate item (and should you respond, we should probably start a different thread), what do you think about the 'secondary' reference to the other page mentioning the St Jeromes characters? Was it too referring to the Voynich, or to yet another document?
(28-04-2024, 03:46 PM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.He has answered that question over and over again.
If that is the case, a link to a corresponding post would be enough for me.
(28-04-2024, 03:54 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (28-04-2024, 03:46 PM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.He has answered that question over and over again.
If that is the case, a link to a corresponding post would be enough for me.
I think the most recent would be comment #218 in the current thread:
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(28-04-2024, 04:06 PM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think the most recent would be comment #218 in the current thread:
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Yes, at least points 4), 5), 6) and 7) show the desired change of perspective.
(28-04-2024, 04:39 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (28-04-2024, 04:06 PM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think the most recent would be comment #218 in the current thread:
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Yes, at least points 4), 5), 6) and 7) show the desired change of perspective.
"...change of perspective"?
(28-04-2024, 04:44 PM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."...change of perspective"?
That's what I would call it in this context.
German: "Perspektivwechsel"