The Voynich Ninja

(25-09-2023, 07:09 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(25-09-2023, 06:45 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You can also add the one with human faces in roots: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - f89r1[3,2] faces in roots, it is quite a distinctive feature.

I think have included that as number "104"

Thanks. I looked for faces in thumbnails (big ones, but not big enough) and couldn't find any.

Look closely at my number "38".  The match is with the smaller plant with the 3 red leaves NOT the larger one with the 1 green leaf. In particular compare the layout of the roots of this plant with the indent.

One might not feel this is a good match, but I wanted to make it clear which 2 I am suggesting match.

I had doubts about that one because of the many differences, like the grassy ground area and the color. Now a number of differences can be explained by the need for compactness of the small plant, and you make a good point that the roots are very similar. I will update my score to 2.

With my match number "60" I am matching the smaller plant in the bottom right hand corner. It is up to the individual to decide if this is a good match or not.

When assessing matches I have tried to pay close attention to detail, which means things like if the edges of leaves are drawn as absolutely smooth and continuous or maybe slightly frayed. I have paid close attention to the precise orientation of the roots.

Maybe I should include my arguments for and against each match point by point on a detail by detail basis.

My match number "93" is a funny example, because the layout of the roots look very similar, but then that is all we have to compare.

It is important to recognise that I am not trying to persuade anyone about matches as there are no right or wrong answers it is down to individual perspective, interpretation, framework and approach. I have made my matches within the framework of my perspective on the mindset of the artist, which comes down to questions like their degree of precision and care. I have tended to err on the side of the author being more likely than not to want to include herbal plants in the botanical section.

What we could do is wait and see what the scoring system results in, then decide on a cutoff line, and then you can see if the removed matches contain any where you think we missed the point. If this is the case, like in 38, we can still decide to add it.

I really don't think including your 60 would be a good idea though. The construction of the root in the large plant is very peculiar, and this doesn't return in the small plant. And the leaves are round vs pointy.

(25-09-2023, 09:53 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I really don't think including your 60 would be a good idea though. The construction of the root in the large plant is very peculiar, and this doesn't return in the small plant. And the leaves are round vs pointy.

I take your points and they are very good points. There are certainly ways in which the illustrations differ. The points that I saw in common were the leaves both with their frayed edges and the way they curved inwards where the leaf meets its stem. However as you say the leaves are round and not pointed. The root I wondered if it might be a simplified illustration. Those were my thought processes.

(25-09-2023, 06:11 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think Wladimir also posted about this at one point, though my recollection of it is vague. These should definitely be compared and supplemented it necessary.

(25-09-2023, 04:34 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think you are right that Wladimir is the other person who has done most in this area. I think I have taken the matching further than him(though I suppose that one might think that I would say that) and he has done a little textual comparison,  but not in much depth if I recall. I think there is scope for doing a much more thorough and exhaustive analysis; in order to do that I need to organise the matchings with all the correct folio position reference points.

This may be Wladimir's post to which you are both referring: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I haven't found anything else in his posts yet that equates. But he has a lot of posts.

There isn't that much in the above post but he references work he published on Bax and I haven't found that yet. There could be more in that than in the post. I glanced through You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as well but didn't find anything there yet that quite equates to Mark's current research (though at the bottom of the page at the blog link, there are two small plant to large plant matches). I noticed Waldimir has been online recently - perhaps he will join in the discussion...

I didn't want to lose the links I found so I posted this tonight. But it looks like there is still more work to be done adding the folio numbers to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. so I'll plan to help work on that next.