(06-11-2024, 06:56 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I haven’t found a text that explains what form sulphur takes after mercury is separated out. They just say “sulphur”.
This was certainly the wish of many alchemists. At least, this is presented as a next, final process:
"Purified and recombined mercury and sulphur could be converted to gold by heating."
Or:
Quote:
One of the other prevailing theories behind transmutation was that the “seeds” of the metals, from which they “grew,” are Sulfur and Mercury. These aren’t literal sulfur and mercury — they’re generic terms for the innate quality (for lack of a better word) of metals that could melt and appear like mercury, such as tin and lead, or metals that could burn like sulfur, such as copper and iron. Sulfur and Mercury represented two complimentary principles that had to be united and balanced out in order to produce the Philosopher’s Stone.
(06-11-2024, 02:39 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (06-11-2024, 06:56 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I haven’t found a text that explains what form sulphur takes after mercury is separated out. They just say “sulphur”.
This was certainly the wish of many alchemists. At least, this is presented as a next, final process:
"Purified and recombined mercury and sulphur could be converted to gold by heating."
Yes, that takes place in the Rubedo stage, which is f79r. and after this one. This stage is the beginning of the Albedo stage, which is where the purification takes place. I’m not sure but reading up the page from the rainbow stage on 83r, I think those are more steps in the Albedo phase. (The top nymph could be washing, but is that other one “fishing”???!!! lol. Using a star as bait? And that dunce cap shaped hat: have you seen the old way they used to symbolize the sun? A sideways dunce cap shape on a circle. Albedo is all about the cleaning of impurities and coming into the “light” so I’ve gotta wonder.)
I just wrote to Nick Pelling about the page order. I now think it goes f79v- Nigredo, You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. - rainbow and albedo, 79r - Rubedo. I know the pages in this quire are disordered, but these pages aren’t identified as problematic by him, so I wanted to know if it would be possible to bind them differently and get the right order.I am spatially (as well as technically)challenged and just can’t see it.
(06-11-2024, 03:10 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I just wrote to Nick Pelling about the page order. I now think it goes f79v- Nigredo, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - rainbow and albedo, 79r - Rubedo.
You can't separate You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. by rebinding, they are on opposite sides of the same page.
I know, but I wondered if they had been inserted wrong way about, bound on the wrong side of the page.
He replied that it was a stretch but there was still a chance they had been scribed out of order.
There is a LOT wrong with this quire, so I guess there could be both scribal and binding errors.
(06-11-2024, 02:39 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (06-11-2024, 06:56 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I haven’t found a text that explains what form sulphur takes after mercury is separated out. They just say “sulphur”.
This was certainly the wish of many alchemists. At least, this is presented as a next, final process:
"Purified and recombined mercury and sulphur could be converted to gold by heating."
Or:
Quote:
One of the other prevailing theories behind transmutation was that the “seeds” of the metals, from which they “grew,” are Sulfur and Mercury. These aren’t literal sulfur and mercury — they’re generic terms for the innate quality (for lack of a better word) of metals that could melt and appear like mercury, such as tin and lead, or metals that could burn like sulfur, such as copper and iron. Sulfur and Mercury represented two complimentary principles that had to be united and balanced out in order to produce the Philosopher’s Stone.
Yes, although I read an article that said this was wrong, they weren’t just principles. This is what I get for trying to tackle alchemy. I’ll find the article, it was fairly current I think. This four stage process goes back 2000 years; there was an original. Zosimos says Mary the Jewess invented it. And at that time it supposedly was indeed mercury and sulphur, the periodic table substances, in cinnabar, that were believed to lead to the philosopher’s stone. But I don’t want to mislead, so let me find the article.
(06-11-2024, 05:06 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, although I read an article that said this was wrong, they weren’t just principles.
I'm interested if you can find the article.
The current thinking, it seems, is that although the theory of metallic transmutation is all wrong, the practice can be shown to be partially factual. For example (I don't know any other) there are some amazing explanations (like the role of impurities) and clarifications of what the alchemists were actually doing, including replications of some of the steps or "keys" documented in Principe & Newman's books, leading toward a rehabilitation of alchemy as an experimental science, dispelling the myth that alchemy was an irrational enterprise:
William R. Newman & Lawrence M. Principe
Alchemy Tried in the Fire: Starkey, Boyle, and the Fate of Helmontian Chymistry (2005)
William R. Newman & Lawrence M. Principe
Alchemical Laboratory Notebooks and Correspondence (2010)
Lawrence M. Principe
The Secrets of Alchemy (2015)
What is intriguing is that the alchemists were trying to transform lead in gold.
Today, using high nuclear technology, the lead can be transformed in gold. Well, it was already done for just several atoms. It is a possibility but the cost is too high to be used at industrial scale.
Do the alchemists choose lead just by hazard or due to low melting point? Or it was more info behind...
(07-11-2024, 06:05 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (06-11-2024, 05:06 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, although I read an article that said this was wrong, they weren’t just principles.
I'm interested if you can find the article.
The current thinking, it seems, is that although the theory of metallic transmutation is all wrong, the practice can be shown to be partially factual. For example (I don't know any other) there are some amazing explanations (like the role of impurities) and clarifications of what the alchemists were actually doing, including replications of some of the steps or "keys" documented in Principe & Newman's books, leading toward a rehabilitation of alchemy as an experimental science, dispelling the myth that alchemy was an irrational enterprise:
William R. Newman & Lawrence M. Principe Alchemy Tried in the Fire: Starkey, Boyle, and the Fate of Helmontian Chymistry (2005)
William R. Newman & Lawrence M. Principe Alchemical Laboratory Notebooks and Correspondence (2010)
Lawrence M. Principe The Secrets of Alchemy (2015)
You know, I tried to google by subject, and the article didn’t come up, but I think it was by Newman! Thanks nablator, I’ll see if it I can find it now!
But Matthias is right also in his explanation. The trouble I have is that if I just went by existent imagery for the “peacock” stage, I could never have arrived at my interpretation. But as soon as you know about putrefaction, the black greasy mass, the rainbow colours, and the vaporization/condensing of mercury - the actual lab processes - then the interpretation seems obvious. And I think this will hold even more true for other pages of the VMs. Any page that includes pipes is now vulnerable to an alchemical interpretation! But unfortunately, I believe an alchemy scholar or chemist specialized in medieval practices, with an appreciation for imagery and symbolism, will be the only candidates able to interpret the more difficult illustrations.
I was googling Newman, and thought I would share this, as it might offer some explanation for why things seem out of order, the use of Ovid, plus it’s just interesting!:
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