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Possible related charm for f116v
- Possible related charm for f116v
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
Rafal > 10-09-2026, 01:50 PM
Quote:What exactly is the first sentence? The last word isn't 'ist'. 'hit'?
You mean the second charm?
Der umb den lyp gefangen ist(?)
I haven't checked last word and I guess I don't have sufficient skills with my rusty German.
Just checked "lyp", it is an old form of "leib" - body. -
RE: Possible related charm for f116v
Koen G > 10-09-2026, 02:45 PM
I can't believe this is supposed to be about a prisoner. Like you can just walk up to them and whisper stuff into their ear?
The first sentence, I can only read the strokes as "Der umb den lyp gefangen liit", "who around the body constricted lies". If "ledig" can mean empty like in Dutch, I wouldn't be surprised if this is about constipation. -
RE: Possible related charm for f116v
Rafal > 10-09-2026, 04:33 PM
Quote:I can't believe this is supposed to be about a prisoner. Like you can just walk up to them and whisper stuff into their ear?
I can only quote what Gemini said me. I don't feel competent to decide if it is an hallucination or not.
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Me:
Does it look like some exorcism and casting a demon out of someone body?
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Gemini:
No, this is a release/escape charm designed to break physical chains or liberate a prisoner, rather than an exorcism or demonic banishment.
The heading "Der vmb den lyp gefangen ist" means "For one who is imprisoned in body" (referring to a human captive in physical chains, stocks, or a dungeon). In Early New High German, lyp (modern German Leib) means "body" or "life," and being "gefangen" means to be captured, imprisoned, or bound.
Key details that distinguish it from an exorcism:- Target Purpose: The charm promises "er wirt ledig" ("he will become free / released"). Medieval magic traditions contained numerous "binding" (Nestelknüpfen) and "unbinding" charms meant to open locks, break ropes, or help prisoners escape physical custody.
- Lack of Demonic/Exorcistic Terminology: Exorcism texts (adjurationes) rely on imperative commands directed explicitly at evil spirits—using Latin formulas like Adjuro te, diabole ("I adjure thee, devil"), Exi ab eo ("Depart from him"), or Maledicte ("Accursed one"). None of these appear here.
- Ritual Action: Whispering protective names into the right ear ("in daz recht ore") was a common method in medieval charm lore to pass divine or magical potency directly into a person's mind to grant them physical strength, divine favor, or protection while attempting an escape or awaiting judgment.
- Target Purpose: The charm promises "er wirt ledig" ("he will become free / released"). Medieval magic traditions contained numerous "binding" (Nestelknüpfen) and "unbinding" charms meant to open locks, break ropes, or help prisoners escape physical custody.
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
Bluetoes101 > 10-09-2026, 11:25 PM
(09-09-2026, 08:35 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know if it was already discussed here but maybe "oladabas" from Voynich Manuscript is some very corrupted, written from hearing, version of "agla" ???
To preface, I am talking out my ass because I know nothing on the following topic really. This is purely from just having fun looking for stuff, and it is from what I half remember, i.e. I'm sure the work had more going on that just listing biblical places but it's all I remember now...
I found an entry in a 1241 Latin work listing places (+ things?) from the bible in alphabetical order
One of the entries was "M oladab", the space isn't real but just how they wrote it, most "m words" were like this.
It is a spelling variation of "Moladah" - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It is obviously purely speculation, but I wondered if the corrupted word took inspiration from this.. I think it's closer than "agla" anyway and "Maria" "+" both hint at a Christian influence.
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Ignore the translation on the left it's pretty bad, but I'm pretty sure this is "M oladab" and not "M oladah" due to other "h" on the page. Latin folk correct if wrong please.
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
JoJo_Jost > 11-09-2026, 05:59 AM
Like nablator, I also think it’s supposed to be “lijt”; in that case, it could be a form of “liegt” (it lies) in which the long “e” has merged with the “g” to form a “j.”
But I’m not entirely sure either...
Reason: You can recognize the “L” in “lyp.” The “ij” also appears in “melachij,” with two dots above it. To this day, the “j” still has exactly that dot above it, as you can see here
.
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
Bernd > 11-09-2026, 10:34 AM
Yes, very odd. I tried multiple LLMs which were convinced the last word is 'ist' - which is clearly false. But LLMs tell you what they expect to see, we all know that.
I also think 'lijjt' is the best candidate so far, but whether it means 'liegt' or 'litt', (is lying or is suffering) the sentence doesn't fully make sense.
'Der um den leib gefangen liegt' may men 'who is imprisoned in the body' (paralyzed). But it's a weird formulation. I'd expect 'im' oder 'in seinem', not 'um den'
The 'ij' combo sounds Dutch to me but I am not familiar with NW-German dialects.
If the last word is 'bit' -> 'bittet', the 'umb' makes more sense (um etwas bittet -> asks or begs for something), but then the 'lyp' makes no sense. Begs for the imprisoned body?
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
nablator > 11-09-2026, 11:26 AM
(10-09-2026, 11:25 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Latin folk correct if wrong please.
The line reads (in classical Latin spelling):
Quote:Moladab in tribu Judae sive Simeonis.
Liber de situ et nominibus, in Patrologiae cursus completus, sive biblioteca universalis, Jacques-Paul Migne 1845 p. 910 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So Moladab is a name.
The unrelated text just above it in your screen capture is in Isidorus Hispalensis Etymologiae (XIX, 10, 10):
Quote:Molaris, in parietibus utilis, quia est quaedam natura ejus pinguior, duraque et aspera, ex quo etiam et molae fiunt, unde et nomen traxit.
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Weird collection of random sentences starting with "Mol" in the Glossarium Salomonis. Well, it's a glossary. -
RE: Possible related charm for f116v
JoJo_Jost > 11-09-2026, 05:16 PM
That would have to be Middle Low German, then
Jerusalem is en middel- mitnacht. R. V. 1544.
uar stad vnd lijt (liegt) in guder middes, mids, (meddes), middest,
lucht.
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
and behind melach:
In liturgical hymnals, “ij” and “iij” are indeed used to indicate repetitions. For example, the following means:
Kyrie eleison ij → sing a total of two times
Kyrie eleison iij → sing a total of three times
a big maybe....
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RE: Possible related charm for f116v
JoeyB > 12-09-2026, 04:21 PM
(11-09-2026, 05:59 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Like nablator, I also think it’s supposed to be “lijt”; in that case, it could be a form of “liegt” (it lies) in which the long “e” has merged with the “g” to form a “j.”
But I’m not entirely sure either...
Reason: You can recognize the “L” in “lyp.” The “ij” also appears in “melachij,” with two dots above it. To this day, the “j” still has exactly that dot above it, as you can see here.
Does this help?
"§ 37. Medial . . . -ige- were sometimes contracted to ī; . . . līt, he lies down, beside . . . liget."
(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) (ellipses added).