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Some suggestions and theories
- Some suggestions and theories
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RE: Some suggestions and theories
ololololo > 24-07-2026, 07:38 PM
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RE: Some suggestions and theories
Stefan Wirtz_2 > 24-07-2026, 11:23 PM
(24-07-2026, 01:01 PM)SpamBot Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, first of all, you can see the same "jerk" circling over the pictures (and text in other places) - it seems more like an attempt to preserve the book contents (from fading out). And since this is the only place he "comments" on, I see no reason to assume that it is an extra addition, rather than a part of the original text.
First of all, some „jerk“ was very interested into adding female parts were none have been before; improving/preserving some characters was just his second idea, or even third.
I count the months‘ names to the same quill that wrote the page numbers into the upper corners — and so, it belonged to some much later „researcher“ who tried to organize the VMS a bit. Writing, letters, style, ink colour look much more like the numbers, not like the original charcters.
(24-07-2026, 01:01 PM)SpamBot Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for the zodiacs, that is just something you expect to see on your crazy esoteric bullshit bingo card.
???
(24-07-2026, 01:01 PM)SpamBot Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>why on earth would the author or some scribe of VMS explain to us the only part that we can know
You know they are zodiacs, he knows that you know that they are zodiacs. What's the point of encrypting them if someone will be able to recognize them from the pictures?
He did not write „sagittarius“ or „taurus“ or „libra“: he added his understanding of the calendaric positions of those, which is quite not obvious at all, as others have other ideas about that. So the „non-encryption“ of months‘ names does reveal something — but not necessarily by the original VMS author.
(24-07-2026, 01:01 PM)SpamBot Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Those are clearly star names on those pictures,[..]
Are they?
And if so: why did the author encript those names, we could easily know them anyway, or not?
If there are repetitions of vords/star labels within completely different zodiacs (I don‘t know whoever checked this already): which zodiac constellations do share the same stars…? -
RE: Some suggestions and theories
eggyk > 28-07-2026, 12:18 PM
(19-06-2026, 06:29 PM)SpamBot Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.- 133:1006205 has the word "octebra" in the middle of the picture, a Libra month is "october" and there is a Libra symbol in the middle. Same thing with 135:1006207, in the middle there is something like "dembre" - Sagittarius month "december". Aren't those enough to figure out the language/country?
No.
Currently the best location matches for the useful month names are split in two. Half (jong, jollet, octēbre) have promising matches in N / NE france and belgium, while the other half (aberil) seems to match alemmanic german speaking areas, predominantly southern germany (swabia, bavaria), austria (tyrol, salzburg) or alsace.
Augst was the form found across all german speaking areas so does not help. Mars / Septēbre / Nouēbre / Decēbre were common forms across all french speaking areas which also do not help. May was (and still is) a common form basically everywhere.
It's possible that there will be promising leads in some area where french and alemmanic german mixed (my hunch is perhaps somewhere near Metz) but we currently do not have the answer for the location or country.
(22-06-2026, 12:13 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As some people here know, I am strongly tending to this second understanding; some "belief" into the kindness of that author does not help at all, and the hunt for origin and language of those names will be useless, apart from maybe knowing some day where this late commentator came from and what he spoke...
Knowing where the manuscript was and when is valuable information, is it not?
About this late-ness: the forms "aberil, abrill, aberel, abrell" have not been seen post-1550AD (technically, the MSS is 1450AD-1550AD). Octembre has not been seen much past 1500AD. An O in June is unattested post 1490AD. An O in July is unattested, as far as I know, post 1400AD.
So, what evidence is there that the month names were written so late? The current evidence suggests, in my view, some time in the 15th century or the first half of the 16th century. It's completely possible that they were written in the decades shortly after the parchment was created. It is still possible they were far later somehow, but I do not currently see any evidence to assume that is the case.
(22-06-2026, 12:13 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The question is: why on earth would the author or some scribe of VMS explain to us the only part that we can know, while he is explaining nothing else of the unknown parts in any understandable writing?
Too kind of him -- a guy that never seems to be kind.
Was it really kindness to give us some hints, or are the months's names just graffiti add-ons by some jerk who wasn't sure about it 200 years later and gave himself some (not-even-quite-accurate) help with such unnecessary notes?
Is it not telling that the only place such a person made notes was the one place they would have likely had a decent idea of what was being depicted? It makes total sense that the only parts he decided to make notes on was the section he thought he might understand. Whoever wrote the names was clearly linking them to use in a calendar, but noting that IS a distinction, as the section may have been about the planets, the constellations, or about the zodiac signs themselves.
And "graffiti" is misleading. Marginalia of month names across various contexts was normal. There are many examples of german names scribbled on latin calendar pages so they can remember which month was meant. There are also examples of latin and french names scribbled on german works.
None of us should claim to know what they mean, or why they were written, or for whom they were meant, nor whether they are right or wrong in the context of the diagrams. None of us know.