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Voynichese's letters
- Voynichese's letters
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Voynichese's letters
ololololo > Yesterday, 06:25 PM
During my independent research of the manuscript text, I may have been able to compile a list of letter combinations that form all of the words in the manuscript, and here it is:
1). Single letters: o, d, e*, y, r, l and maybe s,
2). Bigrams: oi, ai(an), or, ol, ar, al, om, am, in, iin, ee (es)*, ch/sh, ir, il, im, q
3). All gallows and EVA x (appears rarely and only in Voynich B).
*I can't be sure about e, because it can double like letter i, and I think the combination es is like in.
Although I doubt it, you can consider chy/shy and dy to be separate bigrams if you want. Ol, or, al, ar included in the list of bigrams because they are statistically inseparable (there are many separate ol and or, as well as parts of words: chol, poror, ykor and etc).
In fact, these combinations can be used to create any word in the manuscript, for example:
daiin = d+ai+in
chey = ch+e+y
chedy = ch+e+d+y
dy + d+y(unbelievable)
shapchedyfeey = sh+a+p+ch+e+d+y+f+ee+y (or sh+a+p+chedy+f+ee+y)
rchseesy = r + ch + s + ees + y
qokaiin = q + o + k + ai + in
otolaiin = o + t + ol + ai + in
doaro = d + o + ar + o
It looks bulky, but it seems to be true, as you can see, words are made up of not only individual letters, but also of bigrams.
If the encryption algorithm is based on substitution (which is likely to be the case, as there is nothing more appropriate for the 15th century than substitution), then the substitution alphabet contains between 26 and 28 letters (26 if we consider e, ee, and es to be equal and ignore x, which is only found in Voynich B). By the way, the Latin alphabet contains 26 letters.
In my opinion (just in case it's interesting), the letters of the mysterious alphabet are hidden behind numbers, and the numbers are hidden behind the Latin letters themselves. This can explain the presence of bigrams, which are not typical for regular substitution.
Although... at the same time, this is a convincing argument in favor of mystification, as this method can produce as many words as you like.
P.S. Sorry for my bad English, text made by translator. -
RE: Voynichese's letters
Stefan Wirtz_2 > Yesterday, 09:07 PM
What is the point here...? -
RE: Voynichese's letters
ololololo > 11 hours ago
(Yesterday, 09:07 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is the point here...?
Or, if you don't get it, the word formation mechanism in voynichese is similar to a kind of substitution. It sounds silly, I agree, but I think it gives you an idea of the structure of the supposed cipher. -
RE: Voynichese's letters
DG97EEB > 11 hours ago
It's just slot grammar... You can decompose Voynich in to 3, 4, 12... It's long known and doesn't really help as much as you'd think... -
RE: Voynichese's letters
ololololo > 11 hours ago
(11 hours ago)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's just slot grammar... You can decompose Voynich in to 3, 4, 12... It's long known and doesn't really help as much as you'd think...
Yes, I understand that. I came here and wrote this because of a lack of information about this (voynich.nu gives too little information, as far as I can tell). Anyway, thank you for response.
P.S. What about the assumption that there are numbers behind the slots (as you call them)? I didn't find much information about this either, just a few passing references. -
RE: Voynichese's letters
Linda > 9 hours ago
Hmm. If you do statistics for each of the letters and bigrams etc, does it act like an alphabet? Because I just counted the number of items in groups 1 and 2 and depending on how you count them, they could represent a-z. -
RE: Voynichese's letters
DG97EEB > 4 hours ago
(11 hours ago)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This is why I created my new search engine(11 hours ago)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's just slot grammar... You can decompose Voynich in to 3, 4, 12... It's long known and doesn't really help as much as you'd think...
Yes, I understand that. I came here and wrote this because of a lack of information about this (voynich.nu gives too little information, as far as I can tell). Anyway, thank you for response.
P.S. What about the assumption that there are numbers behind the slots (as you call them)? I didn't find much information about this either, just a few passing references.
I asked "explain the slot grammar theories"
"Slot grammar theories suggest that Voynichese words are built from components such as prefixes, midfixes (also called stems), and suffixes. [4][5][21][25] Jorge Stolfi, for instance, developed an early prefix-midfix-suffix idea and later a more complex "core, mantle, crust" model, which describes words in three nested layers. [4][5][22][27] This layered structure implies that certain characters or character combinations are restricted to specific positions within a word, leading to low conditional character entropy. [25][40] For example, some prefixes like "qo-", "ch-", and "sh-" are identified, as are suffixes like "-y", "-dy", and "-iin". [21][25] A 2022 peer-reviewed paper by Zattera highlights a "slot" model and Slot alphabet as useful tools for analysis, leading to a formal grammar that outperforms other proposed grammars in terms of F1 score. [14][18] The Naibbe cipher, a substitution cipher, uses an expanded version of the Zattera (2022) Voynichese slot grammar to parse bigrams into constituent prefixes and suffixes for decryption. [17] On the voynich.ninja forum, quimqu has outlined basic slot grammar rules including valid prefixes, suffixes, and invalid double letters or final glyphs, and reported that a high percentage of generated words match these rules. [1][2] Magnesium on the voynich.ninja forum notes the significant benefit of the slot approach, suggesting it captures something important about Voynich Manuscript word types, though the individual slots may not necessarily represent units of meaning. [8][16] However, Stolfi concluded that this layered word structure does not obviously match Indo-European languages, though Semitic languages might be transliterated into Voynichese, suggesting that if the manuscript is not encrypted, the 'words' could be single syllables. [15]
Sources:
[1] What Lies Beneath: Statistical Structure in Voynichese Revealed by Transformers — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[2] What Lies Beneath: Statistical Structure in Voynichese Revealed by Transformers — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[4] new work — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[5] Voynich MS - Analysis - Word paradigms — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[8] A family of grammars for Voynichese — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[14] A new Transliteration Alphabet brings new Evidence of Word Structure and Multiple "languages" in the Voynich Manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[15] What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[16] A family of grammars for Voynichese — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[17] The Naibbe cipher: a substitution cipher that encrypts Latin and Italian as Voynich Manuscript-like ciphertext — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[18] A new Transliteration Alphabet brings new Evidence of Word Structure and Multiple "languages" in the Voynich Manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[21] The Linguistics of the Voynich Manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[22] The Cardan grille approach to the Voynich MS taken to the next level — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[25] The Linguistics of the Voynich Manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[27] What We Know About The Voynich Manuscript (Reddy and Knight 2011) — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[40] Character Entropy in Modern and Historical Texts: Comparison Metrics for an Undeciphered Manuscript — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."