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The Meaning Survey - March 2026
- The Meaning Survey - March 2026
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RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
dashstofsk > 08-03-2026, 04:28 PM
(08-03-2026, 04:07 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is there any particular commonly believed mystic mystery of the early 15th century that you see being represented in that illustration?
One plausibility that I proposed for quire 13 was witchcraft [ You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ]. In particular the pipes could possibly represent the conduits by which spells travel through the ether. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
pjburkshire > 08-03-2026, 04:57 PM
(08-03-2026, 04:28 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(08-03-2026, 04:07 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Is there any particular commonly believed mystic mystery of the early 15th century that you see being represented in that illustration?
One plausibility that I proposed for quire 13 was witchcraft [ You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ]. In particular the pipes could possibly represent the conduits by which spells travel through the ether.
What I see could be described as a commonly held mystic belief but in the Christian community. Maybe witches of that time held the same belief. I do not know. I only know about it from the Christian perspective of that time. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
Rafal > 08-03-2026, 07:16 PM
Quote:I've been posting here on this forum for 2 years telling what I see. My words haven't worked.
Is it so hard to give a link to your own thread?
I guess you meant this:
I think the stars are souls
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In such case this is not very convincing. Show me some tradition, some other manuscripts where souls are depicted as stars. Show me any medieval images of ensoulment. I know Christian imagery a bit and don't know such stuff.
And if you don't have comparisons then it's just good as "Islamic apocalypse" when women will outnumber men: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Am I missing something? -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
pjburkshire > 08-03-2026, 08:53 PM
(08-03-2026, 07:16 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Show me some tradition, some other manuscripts where souls are depicted as stars. Show me any medieval images of ensoulment. I know Christian imagery a bit and don't know such stuff.
I'm looking at the illustrations and using my own brain and my own knowledge of history to interpret what I am seeing. I see a nymph "firing" the infamous "cannon". I see a blue star-like object leaving the larger blue object and moving towards the body of a woman under a green blanket. Some say the woman looks dead. Some say the woman looks like she is sleeping. I don't think she is dead.
The green blanket alone makes her different from the majority of the nymphs.
I'm asking other members of this forum: What do you think of the woman under the green blanket? What do you see? What are your eyes and your brain telling you? Is she just another nymph only under a green blanket and with a blue star floating towards her?
If there is already a "woman under green blanket" thread, please direct me to it. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
Jorge_Stolfi > 09-03-2026, 01:49 AM
(08-03-2026, 01:49 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've been posting here on this forum for 2 years telling what I see. My words haven't worked. It's time for me to try something else. I'm asking other members to tell me what they see.
I see a drawing that was meant to illustrate some detail of human anatomy, that the Scribe copied in part from the Author's draft and in part maybe from some other book, without really understanding what he was copying; and then added the nymphs (that he had grown fond of drawing while doing the Zodiac section) and other spurious decorative details, because he felt that he had to make the book pretty, like those other random books that the Author showed him.
And I also see substantial BEEEEPing, but I am not allowed to mention that here.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
Rafal > 09-03-2026, 11:37 AM
I will also repeat what I said several times- like many others I believe that Quire13 was inspired by some version of De Balneis Puteolanis
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The trick is that VM author wasn't simply copying pictures but reworking them and using as his inspiration.
I made some comparison for mentioned You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :
In De Balneis you will find both arches and columns looking like the pipes from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and people laying under blankets.
By the way, we don't know the exact copy of De Balneis and exact pictures he was possibly using. It probably doesn't exist anyway. Remember that only about 10% of manuscripts survived. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
pjburkshire > 09-03-2026, 01:02 PM
(09-03-2026, 11:37 AM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I will also repeat what I said several times- like many others I believe that Quire13 was inspired by some version of De Balneis Puteolanis
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That idea makes a lot more sense than most of the ideas that I have seen presented here. But I don't believe it. It seems like very "in the box" thinking. It sounds like an answer that I would get from a chatbot. I'm not saying you got the idea from a chatbot. I'm saying it seems like the answer that checked the appropriate boxes for the question that was asked. The problem is, I don't think the correct question was asked. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
Koen G > 09-03-2026, 04:25 PM
(09-03-2026, 01:02 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That idea makes a lot more sense than most of the ideas that I have seen presented here. But I don't believe it. It seems like very "in the box" thinking. It sounds like an answer that I would get from a chatbot. I'm not saying you got the idea from a chatbot. I'm saying it seems like the answer that checked the appropriate boxes for the question that was asked. The problem is, I don't think the correct question was asked.
What? De Balneis has long been considered one of the best parallels for Q13 - this goes back decades, and is one of the few ideas that survives fairly well. That doesn't mean that Q13 is something like a Balneis, but pointing out these similarities is what may help us move forward, and hopefully eventually figure out what's going on with the VM images in general.
I'd say, when "in the box thinking" is possible, please let's think in the box. Plenty of outside the box thinking is still required. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
pjburkshire > 09-03-2026, 07:02 PM
(09-03-2026, 04:25 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
What? De Balneis has long been considered one of the best parallels for Q13 - this goes back decades, and is one of the few ideas that survives fairly well. That doesn't mean that Q13 is something like a Balneis, but pointing out these similarities is what may help us move forward, and hopefully eventually figure out what's going on with the VM images in general.
I'd say, when "in the box thinking" is possible, please let's think in the box. Plenty of outside the box thinking is still required.
Yes, it is a good match -- if you ask the question: What famous work in art history has arches and unclothed people bathing?
That's the wrong question. You are not going to find anything like the Voynich Manuscript in your high society fine arts history.
You have focused on the wrong pieces.
100 years of searching for butter in the coat closet. Another 100 years of searching for butter in the coat closet still isn't likely to find it there.
That blue star is important. That blue star is the key. -
RE: The Meaning Survey - March 2026
Koen G > 09-03-2026, 07:35 PM
Why?