- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
- Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
-
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Jorge_Stolfi > 23-01-2026, 06:23 PM
(23-01-2026, 05:39 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But today with the assistance of programmable computers we can see something of the way it was done.
Well, I can see the prefix-suffix decomposition too, and more. But what it tells me is the exact opposite of gibberish and obfuscation.
My conclusion is that the Author invented the script in order to make the contents more accessible to Europeans.
But the script was just the first obstacle, which was easily overcome; the language itself was (and is) a much more formidable barrier...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Bluetoes101 > 23-01-2026, 07:06 PM
(23-01-2026, 06:23 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My conclusion is that the Author invented the script in order to make the contents more accessible to Europeans.
From the little I looked into this in the past it seems that people used their language to describe sounds of another language, and this was usually just names.
Are there any examples of;
1. People inventing a new "language" to describe sounds to people? Language as in a new alphabet etc.
- If I heard "ni hao" maybe I write "nee how" in English
- If I see 你好 I should think copying it would save.. well everything to do with inventing a one-off language
2. Work that is much more extensive than say a map with "Bel-jum" (or whatever)? Like a few pages of phonetic interpretation*?
(I may have just made that term up).
I think I'm with you that the author invented the script, just maybe not exactly the why.. pending further proof
-
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Jorge_Stolfi > 23-01-2026, 09:14 PM
(23-01-2026, 07:06 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From the little I looked into this in the past it seems that people used their language to describe sounds of another language, and this was usually just names.
There are many examples of people inventing new alphabets in order to transcribe spoken or written arbitrary texts (not just a few words and names) from another language.
But yes, when Europeans did that, they usually started with the Latin alphabet and added diacritics and/or digraphs, trigraphs, etc. for the sounds or glyphs that needed it. For example:- Pedro de Alcalá inventing an alphabet to transcribe Arabic, late 1400s
- Matteo Ricci inventing the forerunner of pinyin, late 1500s, to transcribe Mandarin.
- Alexandre de Rhodes inventing the Vietnamese alphabet, early 1600s.
- Turrell Wylie inventing a system for transcribing Tibetan, 1950s
- Gabriel Landini and René Zandbergen inventing EVA to transcribe Voynichese, 1990s.
And why should we assume that the VMS Author was European?
However there are many cases of Europeans inventing radically new alphabets, not based on the Latin one, to transcribe foreign languages. Almost all the examples I know were invented mostly for use by speakers of those languages (like the Cyrillic, Armenian, and Georgian alphabets, invented by Greek monks; the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., by European missionaries).
But there is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -- which one could say were invented to make foreign languages accessible to mortal earthlings, by stretching the word "accessible" long enough.
And there is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which was invented to make English texts more accessible to other Europeans, as well as to English speakers themselves.
Another situation when Europeans invented alphabets not based on Latin was when they had to record normal speech or dictation. There are many such "alphabets" for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (not to be confused with steganography). It once was a valued skill for secretaries, lawyers, etc. I even learned one for Portuguese when I was a kid, just for idle fun (now totally forgotten, alas).
And that is what I believe was the goal of the VMS Author. He seems to have designed the alphabet specifically to be faster to write than Latin letters with diacritics. (Whether he succeeded we won't know until we decipher the thing.)
All the best, --stolfi - Pedro de Alcalá inventing an alphabet to transcribe Arabic, late 1400s
-
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Bluetoes101 > 23-01-2026, 11:07 PM
Thanks Jorge! I didn't know about some of these.
My only real issue with, say Chinese - or similarly "very foreign" to me, is that even if it was I'd never figure it out as I don't know the base language so I have to leave it to others. But I hope you/they succeed
By the way, to circle back to your original post, did you spot F42r?
It's an interesting page, I think, because the only cases of qo on it are glued to start-line words.
It also follows the pattern I see with most ych, 1 line start, miss a line, start same next line (sometimes ysh variation)
-
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Doireannjane > 23-01-2026, 11:57 PM
(23-01-2026, 06:23 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(23-01-2026, 05:39 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But today with the assistance of programmable computers we can see something of the way it was done.
Well, I can see the prefix-suffix decomposition too, and more. But what it tells me is the exact opposite of gibberish and obfuscation.
My conclusion is that the Author invented the script in order to make the contents more accessible to Europeans.
But the script was just the first obstacle, which was easily overcome; the language itself was (and is) a much more formidable barrier...
All the best, --stolfi
Yes you’re definitely on the right track Stolfi! I’ve been writing and talking in great detail about accessibility being a driving factor. To quote my free Substack from weeks ago: “… A humanist and medical framework. A communal exchange of knowledge, of seeds” and to loosely quote the text itself (from my translation through modern Irish) “cross-linkage capable of cluster”
I describe the language and words to be weighted or compressed (even in base language), like a file. Gibberish is such a sad way to look at something with so much meaning and thought. Economy of vellum space and effectiveness of language was far more important than speed/efficiency, I think although it probably played a role more so with one of the scribes.
Thanks Blue_toes for the encouragement! <3 -
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Jorge_Stolfi > 24-01-2026, 12:17 AM
(23-01-2026, 11:07 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My only real issue with, say Chinese - or similarly "very foreign" to me, is that even if it was I'd never figure it out as I don't know the base language so I have to leave it to others.
Indeed, and that is why I put the VMS on indefinite pause some 20 years ago -- after I became convinced that it was some East Asian language. I did not have the knowledge needed to solve the puzzle, and had no hope of acquiring that knowledge.
I am back because I think I can still make some contributions to the field, even without actually deciphering the thing. And indeed I think I made a few good ones already. Convincing others has been the hardest part...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Aga Tentakulus > 24-01-2026, 04:46 AM
(24-01-2026, 12:17 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Convincing others has been the hardest part...
I understand you, but the question is, convince them of what?
Many things have already been tried. Turkish, Aztec, and whatever else. Without evidence, there's no chance.
I've experienced it myself and see it again and again.
I can show and explain it with comparisons. People see it, but they don't believe what they see. They ignore it because it could destroy their own theory. -
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Jorge_Stolfi > 24-01-2026, 04:04 PM
(24-01-2026, 04:46 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the question is, convince them of what?
Many things have already been tried. Turkish, Aztec, and whatever else.
I am not even referring to the "Chinese Origin Theory". I mean things as basic as "the Scribe was blindly copying from a draft", "the ink is not iron-gall", or what happened on f116v, or the effect of the trivial line-breaking algorithm on all line-start and line-end statistics...
Quote:Without evidence, there's no chance.
But there is evidence. In some cases, as hard as it could be. That is what led me to those claims.
But it seems that some people's screen goes blank when they open those posts...
(The only theory of mine that I invented before having evidence for it is the Book Switch Theory. But for that one I still give only 10% probability -- being generous, because it is my child... I think it is worth mentioning only because its mere possibility highlights how flimsy is the evidence for the Standard Provenance Theory...)
Quote:They ignore it because it could destroy their own theory.
Yep.
And I noticed that some of those people do not really care whether their theory is right or wrong. They see it only as a way to be known as "experts in the Voynich Manuscript". With the perks that come with that: Tiktok views, interviews, invitation to lectures, books, ...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Distribution of Q-Q gaps in paragraphs
Doireannjane > 24-01-2026, 04:40 PM
It’s genuinely so disappointing when people make content just for views or to sell you something. Like this recentYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with Lisa Fagin Davis with paid views, selling a data privacy service and selling the idea that the Manuscript is still so mysterious. And it appears over half of the comments on that video are bots. SO disappointing.
Feel free to watch my YT of unedited, un-monetized research with my fellow researcher Caira. As someone who has spent as much time on this as I have, I think transparency and proof of work is super important. It also brings people into the conversation rather than propaganda leaning videos which tend to shut the conversation down and give viewers a sense of supremacy or that they will never understand this language or any language.
Two relevant links:
A great article that relates regarding You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
And linguist Robert Hall talking about the Blackfeet language You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.