• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Theories & Solutions
  • The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher
• Thread Closed
• The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

• The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  matildarose > 3 hours ago

  The Voynich Manuscript is not a cipher—it is a technical notation system: medieval Latin botanical terms written phonetically, integrated with Arabic medicine and Neoplatonic philosophy.
  
  The script is not random. It has grammar:
  - At least three grammatical cases
  - Numerical prefixes with semantic meaning 
  - Systematic morpheme composition
  
  This is not glossolalia. This is not cipher. This is language.
  
  I found the system.
  
  The most common word appears 1,847 times and means exactly what you'd expect in a medical-alchemical text.
  
  The biological section's "bathing nymphs" aren't women—they're diagrams of something else entirely.
  
  The circular astronomical diagrams aren't just calendars. They're instructions.
  
  The manuscript has a core formula. Can you guess what's in it?

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  tavie > 3 hours ago

  Which chatbot did you use to develop this?

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  matildarose > 3 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Which chatbot did you use to develop this?

  
  I built the analysis pipelines myself... 171 phases of corpus linguistics, morphological parsers, n-gram frequency analysis, Zipf validation, entropy calculation, and cross-reference engines. The statistical framework includes binomial probability testing, Fisher's method for combined p-values, and control corpus comparison. The interpretation was mine. If you'd like to challenge the methodology, I'm happy to go line by line.
  
  In the meantime, go ahead and ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage. Let me know how that goes 
  Go ahead—ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage. Let me know how that goes.

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  Rafal > 3 hours ago

  Quote:The extremely high IC (0.12) indicates the symbols represent  SYLLABLES or common letter combinations, not individual letters.

  
  So you say that one symbol = one syllable. How do you imagine a language which has only about 20-30 syllables?
  
  

  Quote:In the meantime, go ahead and ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage.

  
  What are your entries? Words? That makes some problem because Voynich manuscript has only about 8000 unique words.

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  Jorge_Stolfi > 3 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)matildarose Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The script is not random.
  - Systematic morpheme composition
  - Zipf's Law R²:  0.973 (STRONGLY LINGUISTIC)
  - RULED OUT (High Confidence):
      • Simple Substitution Cipher
      • Vigenère/Polyalphabetic Cipher
      • Random/Gibberish Text
      • Book Cipher
  - The text exhibits NATURAL LANGUAGE properties throughout
  - Word structure shows clear morphological rules
  - Entropy patterns match natural language exactly
  - Written in a SYLLABIC or LOGOGRAPHIC notation
  - Numerical prefixes with semantic meaning
  - All sections use the SAME encoding system
  - Covering BOTANICAL/MEDICAL subject matter

  
  I agree with all of these; they match my own analyses and evaluations.  Except that the Cosmo section may be astrological/astronomical rather than botanical/medical.  And that each "word" is a syllable, not each glyph.
  
  

  Quote: 
  - Latin-like patterns emerge from frequency-based substitution
  - ABBREVIATED MEDIEVAL LATIN/ROMANCE TEXT
  - Using systematic abbreviation conventions
  - At least three grammatical cases
  - Numerical prefixes with semantic meaning
  - medieval Latin botanical terms written phonetically
  - integrated with Arabic medicine and Neoplatonic philosophy.

  I doubt very much that you have good evidence for any of these.  They are just guesses, aren't they?
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  tavie > 3 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)matildarose Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I built the analysis pipelines myself... 171 phases of corpus linguistics, morphological parsers, n-gram frequency analysis, Zipf validation, entropy calculation, and cross-reference engines. The statistical framework includes binomial probability testing, Fisher's method for combined p-values, and control corpus comparison. The interpretation was mine. If you'd like to challenge the methodology, I'm happy to go line by line.
  o ahead—ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage. Let me know how that goes.

  
  
  How is anyone supposed to challenge your methodology?  In your attachment, you're just listing basic figures like the total number of words, unique words, the conditional character entropy score.  There's nothing there that shows how you reached the conclusions you claim.
  
  And are you truly not using an LLM to write your posts here?

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  matildarose > 3 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:The extremely high IC (0.12) indicates the symbols represent  SYLLABLES or common letter combinations, not individual letters.

  
  So you say that one symbol = one syllable. How do you imagine a language which has only about 20-30 syllables?
  
  

  Quote:In the meantime, go ahead and ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage.

  
  What are your entries? Words? That makes some problem because Voynich manuscript has only about 8000 unique words.

  
  Fair challenges on both counts. Let me clarify:
  
  On the syllable question:
  
  You're right that 20-30 base symbols can't represent a full syllabary in the traditional sense.
  The high IC indicates the symbols represent units larger than single letters but not necessarily one-to-one syllables.
  
  What I've found is a hybrid system:
  
  - Some symbols function as consonant clusters or common bigrams
  - Some function as abbreviated word-stems
  - Prefixes and suffixes modify base meanings systematically
  - Grammatical markers distinguish case and function
  
  So it's not "20 syllables = 20 possible sounds." 
  It's closer to a logographic-phonetic hybrid... like how medieval Latin abbreviations compress information. 
  The symbol inventory is small, but combinatorial morphology expands it dramatically.
  
  On the 12,000 entries vs 8,000 unique words:
  
  You caught a real distinction I should clarify. The dictionary includes:
  
  - Base lexemes (root forms)
  - Morphological variants (same root + different affixes)
  - Compound decompositions (multi-root words analyzed)
  - Contextual meanings (same form, section-dependent)
  
  Fair point on the token count.
  The 12,000+ entries reflect morphological decomposition - roots, variants, compounds, and contextual meanings. 
  Not a claim that 12,000 unique words exist in the manuscript.
  
  Thank you for pressing on this, precision matters.

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  Jorge_Stolfi > 3 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:In the meantime, go ahead and ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage.

  What are your entries? Words? That makes some problem because Voynich manuscript has only about 8000 unique words.

  And many of those are hapaxes (words that occur only once).  How could you have deduced their meaning, since it seems that you still don't know precisely what the language is? (Romance and Latin are very different things.  For one thing, Romance has no cases...)
  
  All the best, --stolfi
  
  PS. And I bet that if I asked ChatGPT to create a 12,000 entry dictionary with 99.67% coverage of the VMS lexicon, it would not blink once and say "Sure! Here it is ...."
  
  PPS. There is a lot more than 1% of errors in the VMS, including words split in half, joined words, words with illegible or ambiguous glyphs, etc.  So if your lexicon has 99.67% coverage, that alone says "bullshit"...

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  matildarose > 2 hours ago

  (3 hours ago)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (3 hours ago)matildarose Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I built the analysis pipelines myself... 171 phases of corpus linguistics, morphological parsers, n-gram frequency analysis, Zipf validation, entropy calculation, and cross-reference engines. The statistical framework includes binomial probability testing, Fisher's method for combined p-values, and control corpus comparison. The interpretation was mine. If you'd like to challenge the methodology, I'm happy to go line by line.
  o ahead—ask ChatGPT to build you a 12,000-entry dictionary with 99.67% corpus coverage. Let me know how that goes.

  
  
  How is anyone supposed to challenge your methodology?  In your attachment, you're just listing basic figures like the total number of words, unique words, the conditional character entropy score.  There's nothing there that shows how you reached the conclusions you claim.
  
  And are you truly not using an LLM to write your posts here?

  
  You're right that the attachment shows results, not process. That was intentional - I'm not ready to publish the full methodology yet, but I wanted to share that the statistical foundation exists.
  
  If you want something testable now, here's what I can offer:
  
  1. The IC and Zipf values are independently verifiable - anyone can run these on the Takahashi or other transcriptions and confirm them.
  
  2. The "not a cipher" conclusion follows from established cryptanalysis -
  an IC of 0.12 rules out simple substitution (~0.066 expected) and polyalphabetic (~0.038). This isn't my methodology; it's Friedman's.
  
  3. I'm preparing a more detailed methodology document - but releasing a complete decipherment system before formal publication would be... unwise, as I'm sure you understand.
  
  What specific aspect would you want to see first? Grammar paradigms? Morphological rules? Sample translations with decomposition shown? I can prioritize based on what would be most convincing.
  
  On Your LLM question: 
  
  I use computational tools extensively - 171 phases of automated analysis, as I mentioned. 
  I also use LLMs for drafting, editing, and validating hypotheses. For example:
  
  Cross-referencing morphological patterns against medieval Latin pharmaceutical terminology
  Generating candidate translations to test against contextual constraints
  Drafting documentation and refining explanations
  
  The analysis pipelines, the dictionary structure, and the interpretive framework are mine. The tools help me work faster and test ideas but they don't do the thinking.
  
  The underlying data is real and verifiable.
  
  What would you like to see?

• RE: The Voynich Manuscript is NOT a cipher

  Rafal > 2 hours ago

  Sorry but your answer is AI generated. If I wanted to talk to ChatGPT I would run a session.
• Next Oldest Next Newest