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Phonetic notation experiment
- Phonetic notation experiment
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Phonetic notation experiment
Rafal > 2 hours ago
We are discussing phonetic notations quite a lot recently. Chinese phonetic, Irish phonetic etc.
I wonder if someone really used a phonetic notation of some language with invented alphabet, would people be able to decipher it at all or not.
I made some test. I have written down a text in modern English using ortography of another language X. Something like writing "hani" instread of "honey".
The text is encoded with simple substitution cipher - one sign in cipher is one sign in alphabet of language X.
Language X has more letters than English but not much.
Would anybody be willing to try if they can break it with available computer tools, online solvers etc. ? And when you break it, are you able to read and understand the English?
Would it be easy, hard or impossible?
I guess existing computer tools use language dictionaries and here words are "bastardized" so dictionaries may not help.
Would anybody be interested?
It if is very hard with English then we can forget about reading phonetic notations of Asian languages
Here is the coded text:
Code:cbwmj@ inb@mc sbt fnob#c zh@ hpcmwhenj l$nr$#znb mr $c lh @fo o$@ ft lbe bc #$wfo lhc inb@m zhpb#e b i$obwtrn $nj tfw $c shbw f@ bwt b nf@y
m$#e byfo bc ofc pnhbwnj whlhn% z$# hmc iwb^b@c h@ @b$@%bwm$n ywb#lc %hcp$lbwb% h@ lb eb%hmbwb@h#b@ z$ch@ whifwmb%nj %b#mh@ zbp bw$o@% chpcmj
m$o^b@% #bwc #$wo hc cmhib% h@ ejt b@% nb%gb@% hm hc b inb@m lbm eb@h p$n&^bwc ft lb ofw% sbt o$#%nj #r^% b@% wblhwb% hm hc @fo@ h@ n$mh@ bc
$shnb$ ehnnbtnfwhre b@% ofc @b#e% h@ f@bw ft lb ywhp yf% $shnbc sr bpfw%h@y mr nb%gb@% sb% pfwc mf o$#%nj heinf# lhc of@% cm$@&^h@y sbwz f@
lb z$mbnthn% $@%$zmnj b cflbwb#@ wheb%j ft $obw sbwz$n eb%hch@ p$zh@bm bc #r ohn cr@ ch #$wfo w$#mnj wheb#@c b tb#lbwhm ft iw$pmhc^hf@bwc
ofwph@y ohl inb@m eb%hch@c bnf@yc$#% %$@%bnhf@c b@% inb@mb#@c #$wfo hc b@$lbw ft $obw ynfz$nh blb#b#znb sbwz$n tbwcm b#% inb@mc ohcij
tb%bwj tfnh%g oh&^ cribwthc^h$nj whcbeznbc lb ohn% p$wfm #$wfoc n$ch@hb#m nhlc ohl lbhw th@ b@% t$#@nj %hl$#%b% nfozc yb#l w$#c mf hmc $%bw
pfef@ @b#ec ehntf#n b@% m$r^b@% nht @hr ywfot ohn whbebw%g twfe hmc pwhih@y b@% cmb%hnj ciwb%h@y wh^fec h@ bwnh ciwh@y lhc wrm cjcmbe eh@c
oh wbyrn$wnh t$#@% lb inb@m ywfoh@y bc %b@c e$mc lb zb#^$n nhlc $w c$em$#ec po$#m n$w%g b@% ciw$onh@y fnob#c f@ nf@y ibc^hfnc b@% h@hm#$nj
ywfo h@ b wf^bm ob@ p$eh@y h@mr tn$obw lb cmbe nhlc zhp$e c^fwmbw cbc$#n b@% $nmbw@b#mnj cib#c% #$wfo znrec twfe %gr@ ohl t$wfo% tnfobwh@y
cmbec mjihpnj wh&^h@y s$#mc ft chpcmh cblb@mh cb@mhehmbwc ftb@ whtbwb% mr bc $ezbn n$#ph lb r@mwb#@% $# pr% h@hc^h$nh ehcmb#p #$wfo tnfobwh@y
cmw$p&^bw tfw b@ $ezbn b@% inb#c #$wfo h@ lb p$wfm tbehnh sfoblbw nrp pnfo^nj twfe zhnfo b@% #r ohn fz^bwl @rebwfoc tn$obw cmfpc pf@%b@c% mryb%bw
s$# $i lb cmbe b@% #r ohn ch s$o lb# %r @fm fn fwh%gh@b#m twfe b cb@mw$n if#@m f@ lb cmbe bc ibw $ezbnhtbwfoc inb@mc lb pfeif^hm tn$obwc mb#cm
zhmbw b@% sbl b p$w$pmbwhcmhp eb%hch@$n f%bw #rgobnj #$wfo sbc pwheh o$#m wb# tnfwbmc %bnhpbmnj twb#eh@y lb fwj@%g mh@mb% cb@mw$n %hcp tnfwbmc
z$m ih@p cmwb#@c ft #$wfo ohn twhpob@mnj zh ch@ t$#l fw chpc tnfwbmc $w mjihpnj t$o@% h@ h&^ h@%hlh%r$n tn$obw sb% -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
anejati > 1 hour ago
Pretty trivial to break with modern tools. I'm not going to reveal the solution (might be a fun challenge for people new to this), but I'll give you an encoded response sentence:
Code:$# %^ @fm mh@p l$ tm#efc thtmh@m cm@m^wh c$#tmw e$@^cpwhim pf@mm#@b eh@h@yt^n mmpcm -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
oshfdk > 1 hour ago
I actually preferred the authentic XV century pen and paper (ok, Notepad, but no other tools) way of decoding this. Took me about 15 minutes. @fm zb% bm fnn -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
oshfdk > 57 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)anejati Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Pretty trivial to break with modern tools. I'm not going to reveal the solution (might be a fun challenge for people new to this), but I'll give you an encoded response sentence:
Code:$# %^ @fm mh@p l$ tm#efc thtmh@m cm@m^wh c$#tmw e$@^cpwhim pf@mm#@b eh@h@yt^n mmpcm
I'm not sure ^'s and some of m's here are what they are supposed to be though? -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
Jagaimo > 47 minutes ago
One can even find the original article that was used to create this using the Google quote search function. I'm not sure Mr Hope expected his article to be encoded on a Voynich forum
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RE: Phonetic notation experiment
Rafal > 39 minutes ago
You are incredible guys!
I will post the solution tomorrow.
But as for now it proves that writing English in some strange alphabet with heavily modified ortography is not a problem at all for modern cryptology.
So it should be the same with some medieval rare Italian or German dialect wrote in and inconsistent way with some old, obsolete ortography.
Voynich Manuscript must be something else. -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
oshfdk > 33 minutes ago
(39 minutes ago)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are incredible guys!
I will post the solution tomorrow.
But as for now it proves that writing English in some strange alphabet with heavily modified ortography is not a problem at all for modern cryptology.
Not even modern. Judging by the complexity of the XV century diplomatic ciphers in his list, I think Tranchedino would have solved this in under one hour, provided he knew modern English and was given all the same information you gave us. There is one very obvious crib in your ciphertext, there is no need for statistical tools or any maths at all. -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
Jagaimo > 26 minutes ago
While this experiment is easier because we know the language it is written in and the languages you speak from your profile (making language x easy to guess), I do feel that your overall point stands. Someone should have found a convincing and repeatable solution to Voynich if simple substitution was the case. But Koen showed quite clearly on his YouTube channel that a simple cypher solution is not going to be the answer, at least not for a meaningful text. So something more sophisticated must be going on, or we might just be studying a medieval hoax. -
RE: Phonetic notation experiment
Bluetoes101 > 18 minutes ago
I guess the point is that if you know this in English
"eye guyes thee poynte ees thaut eyef ewe no ths'n Ingerlesh"
good, but you have no bloody chance with a dictionary and no knowledge of the language.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I accidently wrote some middle English there btw