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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 8 hours ago
(10 hours ago)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Yesterday, 02:00 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.little bed of rowlock
It is probably not this
Yeah I put the option "material" above it, it's the same exact word, spelling and sound. It means specifically material for furniture. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 8 hours ago
I used to go on lives on TikTok to show my process last year, should I do that again? There's a live option for YT as well. Let me know if that's easier for anyone. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 8 hours ago
I find this comparison, or perhaps contrast, quite illuminating.
The Irish text is thus:
Quote:22. Aloe, epaticum, cicotrinum: .i. tri hanmanna na h-aloese & sugh luibe e & ata se teasaide tirim sa ii ceim & ni mor lagas & as iat so an da gne as fearr dhi .i. cicotrinum & epaticum & ar dath na n-ae as maith iat & a mbeith dorcha so-bristi & gan a mbeith drocblasta na do-balaidh & ata folmugadh leanna finn & na leannann remur innti on gaili & ona hinnib & ata brigh glanta na hinchinne & brigh comfurtachta na feitidh & coiscidhthi na ndeataighe innte & ni dleaghar a tobairt an aimser ro-the na ro-fuair & ni dleaghar a tobairt don lucht ara mbi flux fola an daerghalair & da tuctar dleaghar ainis & maisdix & gum araibi da cumusc mar aen ris & as mor foghnus do cosc deor na sul & a pudar da chur isna cneadhaib & fasaidh a feoil.
We need not muck around translating this ourselves, because the editor of this text took the liberty of doing that for us; there is also a Latin translation, if you want it. But here is the English:
Quote:22. Aloe, epaticum, cicotrinum: i.e. the three names of the aloes. It is the juice of a herb, and is hot and dry in the second degree. It is not very laxative. The two best sorts of it are cicotrinum and epaticum. They are best when of the colour of liver, dark and easily broken, and not having a bad taste or a bad smell. They purge the phlegmatic humour and the gross humours from the stomach and the intestines. They have the virtue of cleansing the brain, of comforting the nerves, and of preventing fumosity. They should not be given when the weather is too hot or too cold. They should not be given to those who have a flux of the haemorrhoids; if they be so given, anise and mastix and gum Arabic should be mixed with it. They serve well to prevent tears of the eyes. If their powder be put in the wounds, the tissue will grow.
A thing that stands out to me is that the text is liberally dotted with function words; na, &, se, sa, a, da.... It would seem to me that a period Irish herbal would have quite a different character from the mish-mash of words you keep finding.
I'm also going to anticipate that you connect "swelling" to the medical text here, but I take that to be coincidental. When symptoms are mentioned in the Irish example, they are part of complete sentences with unambiguous medical significance. I do not have any idea what is meant by "withering little old dirty aloe there swelling to element/s/" but I do know what hemorrhoidal discharge is. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 7 hours ago
(8 hours ago)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I find this comparison, or perhaps contrast, quite illuminating.
The Irish text is thus:
Quote:22. Aloe, epaticum, cicotrinum: .i. tri hanmanna na h-aloese & sugh luibe e & ata se teasaide tirim sa ii ceim & ni mor lagas & as iat so an da gne as fearr dhi .i. cicotrinum & epaticum & ar dath na n-ae as maith iat & a mbeith dorcha so-bristi & gan a mbeith drocblasta na do-balaidh & ata folmugadh leanna finn & na leannann remur innti on gaili & ona hinnib & ata brigh glanta na hinchinne & brigh comfurtachta na feitidh & coiscidhthi na ndeataighe innte & ni dleaghar a tobairt an aimser ro-the na ro-fuair & ni dleaghar a tobairt don lucht ara mbi flux fola an daerghalair & da tuctar dleaghar ainis & maisdix & gum araibi da cumusc mar aen ris & as mor foghnus do cosc deor na sul & a pudar da chur isna cneadhaib & fasaidh a feoil.
We need not muck around translating this ourselves, because the editor of this text took the liberty of doing that for us; there is also a Latin translation, if you want it. But here is the English:
Quote:22. Aloe, epaticum, cicotrinum: i.e. the three names of the aloes. It is the juice of a herb, and is hot and dry in the second degree. It is not very laxative. The two best sorts of it are cicotrinum and epaticum. They are best when of the colour of liver, dark and easily broken, and not having a bad taste or a bad smell. They purge the phlegmatic humour and the gross humours from the stomach and the intestines. They have the virtue of cleansing the brain, of comforting the nerves, and of preventing fumosity. They should not be given when the weather is too hot or too cold. They should not be given to those who have a flux of the haemorrhoids; if they be so given, anise and mastix and gum Arabic should be mixed with it. They serve well to prevent tears of the eyes. If their powder be put in the wounds, the tissue will grow.
A thing that stands out to me is that the text is liberally dotted with function words; na, &, se, sa, a, da.... It would seem to me that a period Irish herbal would have quite a different character from the mish-mash of words you keep finding.
I'm also going to anticipate that you connect "swelling" to the medical text here, but I take that to be coincidental. When symptoms are mentioned in the Irish example, they are part of complete sentences with unambiguous medical significance. I do not have any idea what is meant by "withering little old dirty aloe there swelling to element/s/" but I do know what hemorrhoidal discharge is.
Nothing about what I'm finding is mish mash. The Voynich isn't a medical text in the same way like this one. And your example manuscript is not written in a more common/casual Irish. These are not even comparable.
In the Voynich the roots are being talked about. The age of the aloe. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 7 hours ago
(7 hours ago)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nothing about what I'm finding is mish mash. The Voynich isn't a medical text in the same way like this one. And your example manuscript is not written in a more common/casual Irish. These are not even comparable.
In the Voynich the roots are being talked about. The age of the aloe.
Can you name the period and dialect of Irish this is written in? Can you provide evidence that it does not contain the extremely common and persistent definite article You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.? -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 7 hours ago
(7 hours ago)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(7 hours ago)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nothing about what I'm finding is mish mash. The Voynich isn't a medical text in the same way like this one. And your example manuscript is not written in a more common/casual Irish. These are not even comparable.
In the Voynich the roots are being talked about. The age of the aloe.
Can you name the period and dialect of Irish this is written in? Can you provide evidence that it does not contain the extremely common and persistent definite article You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
As I've said the a fada after a word functions like the o fada, of or from. Same with the "in, an, eann" sound after a word, the or present verb:
al
y -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 7 hours ago
(8 hours ago)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah I put the option "material" above it, it's the same exact word, spelling and sound. It means specifically material for furniture.
So, an IKEA manual after all? I wonder to how much extent the translation is affected by the things you think about. Let's have an experiment: salted caramel.
Now let's see if coffee, pastries or ice cream make an appearance in the next translations
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 7 hours ago
I think they could have been Celtic speakers in and around Portugal or Northern Italy (because of the plants and the sentence structure occasionally leaning SVO), not necessarily Irish/from Ireland (I say this in my publication) -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 6 hours ago
(7 hours ago)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(8 hours ago)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah I put the option "material" above it, it's the same exact word, spelling and sound. It means specifically material for furniture.
So, an IKEA manual after all? I wonder to how much extent the translation is affected by the things you think about. Let's have an experiment: salted caramel.
Now let's see if coffee, pastries or ice cream make an appearance in the next translations
I think you both might be a little jealous or have feelings of inferiority, is that the case?