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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Rafal > 07-11-2025, 11:15 PM
I have no idea about Irish language but this system seems to have very loose rules, allowing to read the same symbols in many different ways. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Ruby Novacna > 07-11-2025, 11:57 PM
(07-11-2025, 09:35 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-11-2025, 09:12 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A lot is lined out on my Substack.
I also recommend watching some of TikToks
Ah, I'm rather old-fashioned. I don't have TikTok and I'll never will, ditto Substack (and generally, I'm not going to access anything which needs a registration). Any other options?
The best solution would be a text that can be easily translated. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Kaybo > 08-11-2025, 12:29 AM
(07-11-2025, 11:15 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have no idea about Irish language but this system seems to have very loose rules, allowing to read the same symbols in many different ways.
Since we have very few symbols this kind of solutions are not very unlikely, however, it makes it very hard to show that it properly. It must work for a lot of text that people will believe that it is not interpretation bias. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Bluetoes101 > 08-11-2025, 12:45 AM
As its just a known language where people exist today who can read it, it could just be sent to them to read.
If the system can't be explained to them, then it doesn't work.
It seems to me to be the most simple theory to prove produced in a while.
Has this been sent to people who can read the language and what was their feedback if so? -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 08-11-2025, 01:06 AM
(07-11-2025, 10:13 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is it like this? I think I'll need about 20 more labels to have some idea of how this works in general. When you have time for this, I'd like to annotate the whole image in my first post here just to get some basic understanding of the system in action. Videos and texts are good, but for a quick reference I find images much more useful.
Yeah for sure! Let me know if you need more. Thank you for reviewing my work. I wrote them on an image thinking it would be easier on you but the text saved so fuzzy ah.
Here's 84r in order left to right :
Furthest left: Lovely
álainn, a. (gsm. ~, gsf., npl. & comp. áille). 1. Beautiful, lovely. Aghaidh, teach, áit, ~, beautiful face, house, place. Is ~ an aimsir í, it is beautiful weather. 2. Delightful. B’~ le mo chroí iad, they were my heart’s delight. 3. Thuig sé go h~ é, he understood it perfectly. (Var: gsf., npl. & comp. ~e)
---possibly aithleá, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~nna). Light breeze. ~ fuar gaoithe, cold breath of wind.
Furthest right: Expelled
Adjective version of díbir, v.t. (pres. -bríonn, vn. ~t, pp. -beartha). 1. Drive out, banish, expel. Duine a dhíbirt as áit, to drive s.o. out of a place. Díbríodh as Éirinn iad, they were expelled from Ireland. Dhíbir sé a chlann, he banished his children. ~ na madraí sin, drive away those dogs. ~ as d’intinn é, put it out of your mind. Taibhse a dhíbirt, to lay a ghost. Deamhan a dhíbirt, to cast out a demon. 2. Mth: Ch: Physiol: Eliminate.
Left to right:
ag - a or of
breabhsóg, f. (gs. -óige, npl. ~a, gpl. ~). Spruce, sprightly, woman.
in or at
feadán, m. (gs. & npl. -áin, gpl. ~). 1. Tube.
---
láínteacht, f. (gs. ~a). Blandishment, fondling. Ag ~ le, blandishing, fondling.
or
láithreán, m. (gs. & npl. -áin, gpl. ~). 1. Piece of ground; place, site.
-----------
dhabhach/dabhach: (gs. daibhche, pl. dabhcha). 1. Vat, tub. ~ folctha, bath-tub. Shuighan ~ air, (of brewer) the vat failed to ferment for him; Fig: his plan miscarried. 2. Deepwater-hole; pool, pond. ~ lín, flax-pond. ~ éisc, fish-pond. 3. Holy well.
A fada = it in this context
Bronn - Grants/Bestows
--------------
atha1, f. (gs. ~). Space of time. I gceann ~, after a while. ~ fhada, a long while. Le h~, for some time.
-(with diminutive) a little space of time
áibhéil2, a1. 1. Great, vast. Radharc ~, great, wonderful, scene. Is ~ an aois atá aige, he is a great age. 2. Terrible. Is ~ an scéal é, it is a terrible affair.
-----
A diminutive of
fabhra, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~í). 1. Eyelash. Níor leag mé ~ aréir, I did not close an eye, sleep a wink, last night. ~í an lae, peep of day. Féachaint faoi d’fhabhraí ar dhuine, to steal a glance at s.o. 2. (Eye)brow. Thug sé faoi na ~í dó é, he let him have it between the eyes. Chuir siad fuil as ~í lena chéile, they battered one another. ~ cnoic, brow of hill. 3. (pl.) ~í (éadaigh), fringe (of cloth).
athlán, m. (gs. -áin). 1. Refill. 2. Second earthing (of plants). -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 08-11-2025, 12:20 PM
(08-11-2025, 01:06 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah for sure! Let me know if you need more. Thank you for reviewing my work. I wrote them on an image thinking it would be easier on you but the text saved so fuzzy ah.
Here's 84r in order left to right :
Thank you! I think it would be easier if I just provide images with numbered labels, starting from the top of my collection. This is the bottom of 82v. Could you give readings and translations for these?
-
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 08-11-2025, 02:53 PM
(08-11-2025, 12:20 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(08-11-2025, 01:06 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah for sure! Let me know if you need more. Thank you for reviewing my work. I wrote them on an image thinking it would be easier on you but the text saved so fuzzy ah.
Here's 84r in order left to right :
Thank you! I think it would be easier if I just provide images with numbered labels, starting from the top of my collection. This is the bottom of 82v. Could you give readings and translations for these?
Sure! Yes much easier. I included 84r again as well but cleaned up from my last response so you have it all in one place. Also,
82v I have noted that the furthest top left corner odd word (ending chars order is strange), this might be a depiction of mimicking (!)
Possibly a word adjacent to mimicking in irish
athléamh, v.t. (pres. -éann, fut. -ifidh, vn. -éamh, pp. -ite).
1. Reread. 2. (With ar) Mimic.
Here is from the tube arch from bottom of 82v:
number 1:
(silent a) fuill, v.t. (vn. ~eamh). Lit: Add to, increase.
number 3 (keep in mind half tower, fh and bh are often fuh and vuh sounds in modern irish, so represented with the one character):
->libh á/ lifh á
le1, prep. (Pron. forms: liom, leat, leis m, léi f, linn, libh, leo) (Prefixes h to vowel, becomes leis before article. S.a. AN1. Combines (i) with possessive adjectives a, ár to form lena, lenár, (ii) with relative particles a, ar to form lena, lenar) With; to, for; by, against. 1. (a) In proximity to, in contact with, beside.
ruled out:
fhoill- slight/light
fuil- blood
bhfuil- to be
number 2 :
note a fada with subtle extra syllable is represented oo, this is not common. see trá on 35r (pollen page, also on my Tiktok)
(silent a) fáfall, m. (gs. -aill). 1. Easing off (of rain, of pain, of activity). 2. Backwater, slack water. 3. Shelter.
number 4:
feadóg, f. (gs. -óige, npl. ~a, gpl. ~). 1. (Of instrument) Whistle. ~ stáin, tin whistle. ~ mhór, flute. ~ bósain, boatswain’s pipe. Seinm ar fheadóg, to play a whistle. An fheadóg a shéideadh, to blow the whistle. 2. Orn: Plover. ~ chladaigh, ringed plover. ~ ghlas, grey plover. ~ shléibhe, golden plover. ~ mhara, (species of) sandpiper. 3. Tall thin woman.
Also related are these words:
feadánach, a1. 1. Tubular; vascular. 2. Whistling, wheezing.
and the diminutive of:
feadh1, m. (gs. ~a). 1. Extent, distance, space, duration. An ~ idir dhá rud, the space between two things.
number 5:
(uncertain)
athadh1, m. (gs. & npl. -aidh, gpl. ~). Lit: Elopement.
I thought this was modern but alas: "The term "elopement" originates from the Middle Dutch word "ontlopen," meaning "to run away," and has evolved to specifically refer to a secret marriage, often without parental consent. Historically, it also implied a broader sense of escape or fleeing, with its romantic connotation developing by the 17th century."-etymology.com
number 6:
(closest phonetically not exact)
athdhéan, v.t. (vn. ~amh). Redo, remake. Ní féidir thú a ~amh, you are incorrigible.
number 7:
(silent a)faoi1, prep. (Pron. forms: fúm, fút, faoi m, fúithi f, fúinn, fúibh, fúthu) (Lenites; combines (i) with article an to form faoin, (ii) with possessive adjectives a, ár, to form faoina, faoinár, (iii) with relative particles a, ar, to form faoina, faoinar) I. Under. 1. (a) Beneath, below.
possible: (silent a) faí, f. (gs. ~, pl. ~the). 1. Voice, note; cry, call; whine, lament.
number 8:
verb form of:
athadh1, m. (gs. & npl. -aidh, gpl. ~). Lit: Elopement.
Here's 84r again properly organized :
Furthest left: Lovely
álainn, a. (gsm. ~, gsf., npl. & comp. áille). 1. Beautiful, lovely. Aghaidh, teach, áit, ~, beautiful face, house, place. Is ~ an aimsir í, it is beautiful weather. 2. Delightful. B’~ le mo chroí iad, they were my heart’s delight. 3. Thuig sé go h~ é, he understood it perfectly. (Var: gsf., npl. & comp. ~e)
---possibly aithleá, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~nna). Light breeze. ~ fuar gaoithe, cold breath of wind.
Furthest right: Expelled
Adjective version of díbir, v.t. (pres. -bríonn, vn. ~t, pp. -beartha). 1. Drive out, banish, expel. Duine a dhíbirt as áit, to drive s.o. out of a place. Díbríodh as Éirinn iad, they were expelled from Ireland. Dhíbir sé a chlann, he banished his children. ~ na madraí sin, drive away those dogs. ~ as d’intinn é, put it out of your mind. Taibhse a dhíbirt, to lay a ghost. Deamhan a dhíbirt, to cast out a demon. 2. Mth: Ch: Physiol: Eliminate.
Left to right in center (each segment noted):
ag - a or of
breabhsóg, f. (gs. -óige, npl. ~a, gpl. ~). Spruce, sprightly, woman.
in or at
feadán, m. (gs. & npl. -áin, gpl. ~). 1. Tube.
---------------------------------
(silent a) feadhain, f. (gs. & pl. -dhna). Band, troop, company.
form of either:
láínteacht, f. (gs. ~a). Blandishment, fondling. Ag ~ le, blandishing, fondling.
or
láithreán, m. (gs. & npl. -áin, gpl. ~). 1. Piece of ground; place, site.
-----------
dhabhach/dabhach: (gs. daibhche, pl. dabhcha). 1. Vat, tub. ~ folctha, bath-tub. Shuighan ~ air, (of brewer) the vat failed to ferment for him; Fig: his plan miscarried. 2. Deepwater-hole; pool, pond. ~ lín, flax-pond. ~ éisc, fish-pond. 3. Holy well.
A fada = it in this context
Bronn - Grants/Bestows
--------------
atha1, f. (gs. ~). Space of time. I gceann ~, after a while. ~ fhada, a long while. Le h~, for some time.
-(with diminutive) a little space of time
áibhéil2, a1. 1. Great, vast. Radharc ~, great, wonderful, scene. Is ~ an aois atá aige, he is a great age. 2. Terrible. Is ~ an scéal é, it is a terrible affair.
-----
A diminutive of
fabhra, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~í). 1. Eyelash. Níor leag mé ~ aréir, I did not close an eye, sleep a wink, last night. ~í an lae, peep of day. Féachaint faoi d’fhabhraí ar dhuine, to steal a glance at s.o. 2. (Eye)brow. Thug sé faoi na ~í dó é, he let him have it between the eyes. Chuir siad fuil as ~í lena chéile, they battered one another. ~ cnoic, brow of hill. 3. (pl.) ~í (éadaigh), fringe (of cloth).
athlán, m. (gs. -áin). 1. Refill. 2. Second earthing (of plants). -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
cabeswater > 08-11-2025, 05:20 PM
As a native Irish speaker, I don't see how this is working. The translation process seems to be changing its interpretation of Voynich characters every time it comes across them. How are you dealing with EVA o? I don't see any reference to it at the start of vords or your interpretation of the vords. There's so many issues with this I can't even form my thoughts into meaningful seperate questions and it's all melding into one huge unknown. If you don't speak Irish, I'm clueless as to how your process is working, or if there's a process at all. You decided characters must be sounds in Irish, you don't know any Irish words, so you then look up words in Irish that include the sounds you have decided are present. This is by no means a scientific or repeatable process. Feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong here.
I'm happy to read over what you have since I actually can speak Irish, plus I have studied medieval Irish manuscripts in my time investigating the Voynich. Your definitions and spellings for Irish words are also all Modern Irish, when the Irish spoken and written around 14th C would have been Early Modern Irish. Two very different beasts after the Caighdeán Oifigiúil hybridised the three main dialects of Irish in the mid 20th century. Time-accurate Irish would be one of those three, if not one of the many lesser spoken dialects. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 08-11-2025, 06:10 PM
(08-11-2025, 05:20 PM)cabeswater Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As a native Irish speaker, I don't see how this is working. The translation process seems to be changing its interpretation of Voynich characters every time it comes across them. How are you dealing with EVA o? I don't see any reference to it at the start of vords or your interpretation of the vords. There's so many issues with this I can't even form my thoughts into meaningful seperate questions and it's all melding into one huge unknown. If you don't speak Irish, I'm clueless as to how your process is working, or if there's a process at all. You decided characters must be sounds in Irish, you don't know any Irish words, so you then look up words in Irish that include the sounds you have decided are present. This is by no means a scientific or repeatable process. Feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong here.
I'm happy to read over what you have since I actually can speak Irish, plus I have studied medieval Irish manuscripts in my time investigating the Voynich. Your definitions and spellings for Irish words are also all Modern Irish, when the Irish spoken and written around 14th C would have been Early Modern Irish. Two very different beasts after the Caighdeán Oifigiúil hybridised the three main dialects of Irish in the mid 20th century. Time-accurate Irish would be one of those three, if not one of the many lesser spoken dialects.
Hi,
So I address a lot of these responses on my TikTok and Substack. My publication isn't on this thread. I took Irish at Yale in high school so I had an understanding of conversational grammar and Munster dialect before starting. I used a medieval version of Tain Bo to compare with modern spelling. Most words are not so different at all, agus is acus medieval Irish for example. Once linked to rough phonetics all the modern words are grabbed from Teannglann based off of the three dialects in their pronunciation guide. I verify at least the english word it translates to is from or before the 15th century with an etymology dictionary.
I hope this makes sense! Let me know if you'd like to participate in repeatability. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 08-11-2025, 06:54 PM
(07-11-2025, 09:35 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-11-2025, 09:12 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A lot is lined out on my Substack.
I also recommend watching some of TikToks
Ah, I'm rather old-fashioned. I don't have TikTok and I'll never will, ditto Substack (and generally, I'm not going to access anything which needs a registration). Any other options?
Hi, no worries!
I'll have more on my Youtube soon (@ blesst_butt) and probably more in this thread too. I'll try to move some videos on this thread.