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Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

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• Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > 26-10-2025, 05:18 PM

     
  
  
  I found this wheel in Raymundi Lulli's book ‘Testamentum duobus libris vniuersam artem chymicam complectens’, published in 1566, and it reminded me of 67v of the Voynich Manuscript, only in a version that was 100 years younger and therefore more modern. But Raymundi Lulli lives 1232 / 1316.
  To recognise the similarity, one simply has to imagine placing the two Voynich pages on top of each other, so the idea goes. Here we have the four elements: air, water, fire, earth, and the terms in the Voynich Manuscript in the four corners of the page could be the same words.
  
  Chemical processes are described, for example: washing the black into the white (air), and then the various possibilities are described in the circle, for example through distillation, extraction, etc.
  
  I then translated the page in its entirety and compared it with the texts in the rays on the second page – in the somewhat desperate hope of finding a key, but unfortunately I found nothing. Nor did I find anything in the other inscriptions, but perhaps someone else here will discover something I overlooked (which is certainly not unlikely)... But it could just as well be something completely different...
  
     

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > 26-10-2025, 05:47 PM

  okchos?m = Terra
  otaradain= Aer
  akocde (?) Aqua
     
  Ignis is painted over
  
  
  In the inner circle: 
  
  Fetidum -> soaiin 
  insipidum-> dalam
  dulce -> sory
  amarum -> okoral

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > 26-10-2025, 06:35 PM

  to ur info: 
  
  There are approximately 50 words (excluding ‘per’) arranged radially in Lulli
  
  and approximately 50 words in Vyonich (depending on how you count them).
  
  
  
  In the left-hand Voynich image, there is also a narrow circle with inscriptions, similar to those found in Lulli.
  
  
  There are four cardinal directions, each accompanied by text:
  
  f67v2.11: dcheeor.ochepalain → ‘ablutio nigrum in album’
  
  f67v2.13: okydshom.oepoaly → ‘reductio humidi in siccum’
  
  
  f67v2.15: o.chekair.okolaig → ‘fixio spiritus in fermentum’
             
  f67v2.17: qokoain.ockhey → ‘solutio grossi in simplum’
  
  That the 9 = latin "um" seems to be the typical Brevigraph, is at least probable.

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  Ruby Novacna > 26-10-2025, 09:47 PM

  (26-10-2025, 06:35 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  f67v2.11: dcheeor.ochepalain → ‘ablutio nigrum in album’
  ...

  
  The word "ochepalain," in my opinion, could well be ακεφαλειν (ἀ + κεφαλόω) - remove the head or ἀκεφᾰλών - headless.
  I don't know if this term could have a place in your schema.

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > 26-10-2025, 10:13 PM

  (26-10-2025, 09:47 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The word "ochepalain," in my opinion, could well be ακεφαλειν (ἀ + κεφαλόω) - remove the head or ἀκεφᾰλών - headless.
  I don't know if this term could have a place in your schema.

  
  Ablutio nigrum in album: Washing/cleaning (transformation through cleansing) from black to white. A term used in alchemy. 

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > 26-10-2025, 10:25 PM

  I looked it up:
  
  Per inhumationem = by burial / interment
  
  but it doesn't really fit
  
  In this section u can read this:
  
  Per inhumationem
  Per calcinationem
  Per distillationem
  Per humidorum viscificationem
  Per siccorum mortificationem
  Per desiccationem
  Per humectationem
  Per infrigidationem
  Per extractionem
  Per appulsionem
  Per expulsionem
  Per digestionem

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > Yesterday, 05:58 PM

  The Rosetta Stone?
  
  If the Voynich writer copied from Lulli, then he should have used similar terms. I have compared the terms from both circles. However, we do not know whether the 1560 editions adopted the same order as the original 13th-century version, but let us assume that they did, because the order should also be the same. Note: the per / by may simply have been omitted or added in the new version by Lulli.
  
  Then we would have a lot of terms that match the Voynich text.
  
  It is exciting that we have here the term for ‘daiiin’, and daiin which also has a lot to do with what the Voynich manuscript is about!
  
  Daiiin = planting, growth, vitalisation
  
  pchodaiin = by drying out
  
  okeeodaiin = by liquefaction
  
  cheodaiin =  by softening; there are actually references where fisher-nets are softened with water, and here it says ‘mollificationem’.
  
  Does "daiin" have something to do with water?
  
  and, as you can easily verify, I have not changed the order!
  
  Does anyone have an opinion on this? Do you see any other relevant combinations?
  
  Here the list:
  
  Aer
  
  Per inhumationem    by burial / interment                          ytchey 
  Per calcinationem     by calcination / annealing                   keeochy
  Per distillationem      by distillation dair
  Per humidorum 
  viscificationem         by thickening the moist substances      ockhy keechey
  Per siccorum 
  mortificationem        by (killing/fixing) the dry substances    Chy koldy
  Per desiccationem    by drying out                                     pchodaiin
  Per humectationem  by moistening                                    otch
  Per infrigidationem   by cooling                                         oekeeody
  Per extractionem      by extraction                                     dcheeos
  Per appulsionem      by approximation, movement towards  qokeeeody
  Per expulsionem      by expulsion                                      oees
  Per digestionem      by digestion/processing                       olcheeg
  
  Terra
  
  Per incretionem        by storage, growth               ykcho
  Per mollificationem   by softening                        cheodaiin
  Per inhumationem    by embedding, burial            ypcheg
  Per indurationem      by hardening, solidification    oty
  Per animationem      by animation                        opcheey
  Per congelationem    by solidification, freezing       chsocheey
  Per attractationem    by attraction, drawing near    chedaly
  Per nutricationem     by nutrition/food                   ykeeey
  Per solutionem         by dissolution                       qokeey
  Per partim commixtionem by partial mixing           chokeear
  Per subtilisationem    by refinement                      osheey 
  Per sublimationem    by sublimation                      keeody
  Per vegetationem     by growth, vegetation            chedals
  
  Ignis
  
  Per congelationem       by freezing, solidification               ofarshey
  Per solutionem             by solution, dissolution                 qokcheor
  Per vegetationem         by planting, growth, vitalisation    daiiin
  Per elementationem     by insertion into the elements       oeees
  Per instrumentalitatem by the instrumentality of tools        otechy
  Per vivificationem         by animation                                  o,kee
  Per liquefactionem       by liquefaction                                okeeodaiin
  Per indulcorationem     by sweetening, softening               sai!r
  Per desponsationem    by ‘combining’ two substances      dairal
  Per reductionem           by reduction, reduction                  oksheeoda
  Per commixtionem        by mixing                                       oraral (or.aral)
  Per resuscibilitatem      by revivability, possibility of animation olar aroka 
  
  Aqua
  
  Per liquefactionem       by liquefaction                                 otorkeol
  Per divisionem             by division / fragmentation           orsheey (or.sheey to be read as one word)
  Per corruptionem         by decay / decomposition             dary
  Per calcinationem        by calcination / annealing (burning out)  okechey
  Per exsiccationem       by drying out                               cheody
  Per condensationem    by condensation                           cheky
  Per putrefactionem       by putrefaction / decay                otechodor
  Per rarefactionem        by dilution / volatilisation              o!dreeey
  Per animationem          by animation / enlivening             chockhdy
  Per elementationem     by elementation (insertion into the order of the elements) cheockhy
  
  P.S. In my opinion, Ignis was painted over, maybe because of the word Ignis = Fire, but also purgato

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  R. Sale > Yesterday, 08:52 PM

  Have you identified the face with the headband and any historical artistic representations?

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > Yesterday, 08:56 PM

  (Yesterday, 08:52 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you identified the face with the headband and any historical artistic representations?

  
  No, I haven't. I only have the items I've presented here. But I suspect that the star with the winding lines (rays) that look roughly like the rays of the sun, i.e. the face with the headband, is simply meant to indicate that this right-hand graphic should be connected to the left-hand one at this point.

• RE: Raymundi Lulli und Folio 67v

  JoJo_Jost > Yesterday, 09:17 PM

  Info: According to current research, the ‘Testamentum duobus libris universam artem chymicam complectens’ is not by Ramon Llull, but a pseudo-Lullian (falsely attributed) work on alchemy. Researchers therefore tend to refer to it as a pseudepigraph rather than a modern ‘forgery’.
  
  Today, it is attributed to an anonymous author (‘Magister Testamentum’) and is believed to have been written in the 14th century.
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