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RE: f17r
JoJo_Jost > 17-11-2025, 03:22 PM
Of course, that is your opinion, but it does not change the statement in the text, namely that if it is Latin, this is the most coherent sentence you will find.
Furthermore, the translation reads:
The master beekeeper prepares (bee) resin with herbs. (Fucus can also mean resin, including propolis.) -
RE: f17r
schimmelchampagne > 17-11-2025, 07:33 PM
I think that if anyone offers a transcription and translation of the text, it should be accompanied with the character groupings that would lead to that transcription. Then we can ask a set of questions:
1. Are the character groups proposed relatively consistent? If not, would a different grouping be more consistent?
2. Do the proposed groups correspond reasonably with how the characters within them might have been written in the 15th century?
3. If a single instance of a character might plausibly belong to another group (which happens in my groupings with "t" vs. "c" or "b" vs. "h"), is the possibility that this character in fact belongs to a different group strong enough to dismiss any coherent translation that the current assignment affords us?
There are a lot of factors to be weighed. Linguistic coherence and orthographic consistency both rank high for me. Here is the grouping that led to my translations of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (with characters from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. outlined in red) -- I would love to see how others group them differently and what kinds of transcriptions those groupings lead to. Maybe it would be cool to build a tool to move these around and auto-generate a transcription for each grouping.
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RE: f17r
Koen G > 18-11-2025, 02:28 PM
Looking at the original image, I'd almost think these are specks, either on the parchment or in the ink. The writing of the marginalia is reaaaally small (feels much smaller than the Voynichese text) and this thing is the size of a stroke width. -
RE: f17r
Jorge_Stolfi > 18-11-2025, 03:12 PM
(18-11-2025, 02:09 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but is this a trick of the vellum/scan, or might there be the same "legs" on "o" in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and 116v ?
These are clips from the multispectral image set (UV 350 nm) with practically no processing
They have about twice the resolution of the BL 2014 color scans, without the JPEG artifacts.
The whole set of clips of that marginal writing is in
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Yoy will need to rescale the pixel intensity values from ~0..2000 to 0..65535 in order to see anything.
The graininess is mostly due to the rough texture of the vellum surface and the slanted illumination (tilted about 45 deg northwards or southwards from vertical). That makes each little bump or dimple brighter on the light-facing side than on the more shaded side.
Of the three images with same wavelengths, one was taken with light from N, one with light from S, and one with both lights on. You may be able to process each trio to remove some of the graininess from the relief, enhancing the true colors of the vellum and ink.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: f17r
Jorge_Stolfi > 18-11-2025, 03:25 PM
(18-11-2025, 03:12 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These are clips from the multispectral image set (UV 350 nm) with practically no processing
While I don't see the tails on the "o" of "allor" (which looks more like "allar"), there are a few faint traces that could have been original writing that were missed by the Restorer of that marginal writing:- A short vertical stroke, down from the bottom of the second "L" of "allor".
- A diagonal stroke down and to the left, from the middle of the "r" of "allor".
- A short curved left-pointing "tail" from near the bottom of the "L" of "lucz".
and then "corrected" into a Latin "a".
All the best, --stolfi - A short vertical stroke, down from the bottom of the second "L" of "allor".
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RE: f17r
Bluetoes101 > 18-11-2025, 03:39 PM
Maybe I'm just being bamboozled, its from - Voynich_17r_RF+FL_redRoI_cal_med3+box101x3_bad_22bands_greenRoI_TC_shiftdif_MNF_R+8_G+9_B-10_scga_hue-80_sat-50.jpg in the MSI scans -
RE: f17r
Jorge_Stolfi > 18-11-2025, 04:32 PM
(18-11-2025, 03:39 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe I'm just being bamboozled, its from - Voynich_17r_RF+FL_redRoI_cal_med3+box101x3_bad_22bands_greenRoI_TC_shiftdif_MNF_R+8_G+9_B-10_scga_hue-80_sat-50.jpg in the MSI scans
Is that from some MSI explorer site? I got the raw images directly from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and just converted them (losslessly) to PNG, then cropped to the "mallior" line.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: f17r
Bluetoes101 > 18-11-2025, 05:00 PM
(18-11-2025, 04:32 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(18-11-2025, 03:39 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe I'm just being bamboozled, its from - Voynich_17r_RF+FL_redRoI_cal_med3+box101x3_bad_22bands_greenRoI_TC_shiftdif_MNF_R+8_G+9_B-10_scga_hue-80_sat-50.jpg in the MSI scans
Is that from some MSI explorer site? I got the raw images directly from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and just converted them (losslessly) to PNG, then cropped to the "mallior" line.
All the best, --stolfi
Yeah top one in here (15.5mb) - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I think I was lazy when I downloaded them all and just did the "processed" folder -
RE: f17r
Doireannjane > 19-11-2025, 06:53 AM
This is back to an earlier topic but the roots look funny here because it is an aquatic flower, which is described in the paragraph. It is a budding tufted loosestrife.