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• RE: Derek Vogt

  Michael Obraztsov > 01-07-2025, 04:46 PM

  (01-07-2025, 08:45 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.LLMs make things up all the time. Why don't you ask it for a source?

  
  That's what I do. First of all, I just look in dictionaries: English, Latin and French. If the word is not found there, then I turn to Deep seek, and I definitely require sources. Then I double-check the information in the GPT telegram bot, not directly explaining the answer from Deep seek, but asking GPT to give its interpretation.

• RE: Derek Vogt

  Mauro > 01-07-2025, 05:15 PM

  (01-07-2025, 01:24 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  
  
  And all that from a few minutes with Google, excluding songs and poetry...
  
  
  
  All the best, --jorge

  
  Which search string did you use to find repeated words?

• RE: Derek Vogt

  Michael Obraztsov > 01-07-2025, 05:49 PM

  (01-07-2025, 01:24 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (01-07-2025, 02:29 AM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Please have a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. qokeedy Loop of Death
  
  qokedy dy c'hety qokedy qokeedy qokeeedy lol
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
  yc'hedy qokeedy qokeedy olkeedy otey koldy

  
  Agreed, Voynichese is unusually repetitive.  However:
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
  
  And all that from a few minutes with Google, excluding songs and poetry...
  
  All the best, --jorge

  
  Your irony is completely inappropriate. If you want to criticize, give a recommendation, or clarify something with me, please do it directly.

• RE: Derek Vogt

  RadioFM > 01-07-2025, 06:24 PM

  (01-07-2025, 05:49 PM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your irony is completely inappropriate. If you want to criticize, give a recommendation, or clarify something with me, please do it directly.

  
  I think it's a response to my comment and with no ill intent. It's an entirely fair remark about how reduplication can arise in these languages depending on the context and writing style. No offense taken.
  
  

  ---

  
  

  Michael Obraztsov Wrote:Please take me a screenshot of this page and tell me which line numbers are here

  
  
  Upon closer inspection I may have mistaken ch for ee

• RE: Derek Vogt

  magnesium > 01-07-2025, 06:44 PM

  (01-07-2025, 02:29 AM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Please have a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. qokeedy Loop of Death
  
  qokedy dy c'hety qokedy qokeedy qokeeedy lol
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
  yc'hedy qokeedy qokeedy olkeedy otey koldy

  
  To add to Jorge Stolfi's point on duplications naturally arising in language, this sort of duplication occurs at the level of letters and short n-grams, as well, so can also be achieved within a substitution cipher scheme. I'll talk about this more at this year's VMD, but in principle, something like qokedy could be parsed as qok|edy where qok- is one plaintext letter and -edy is another plaintext letter. So something like:
  
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy
  
  Could be the letter pattern ABABACACAB.
  
  Alternatively, qokedy, qokeedy, and qokeeedy all look distinct, so each could theoretically stand for an individual plaintext letter, which makes the repetition much more reasonable. Because something like:
  
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy
  
  Could encrypt something like the Roman numeral MMXX.
  
   These sorts of approaches are attractive for a variety of reasons, but the fundamental trade-off is that there has to be a lot less meaningful text in the VMS than first impressions would otherwise suggest.

• RE: Derek Vogt

  Ruby Novacna > 01-07-2025, 08:10 PM

  (01-07-2025, 04:27 PM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for the neural network's response, it is possible that its answer was inaccurate, and Derek Vogt did not translate EVA "dy" as "sa". 
  "Sa" is the Old French word for "her", "her own", 

  
  Michael, if you follow a simple rule: always cite your sources, you won't fall into this kind of trap.
  I was talking about the "-sa" ending, not the entire word. So your answer isn't satisfactory.

• RE: Derek Vogt

  ReneZ > 02-07-2025, 12:29 AM

  (01-07-2025, 12:07 AM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The neural network told me that there was a person who translated the EVA encoding "qokedy" like me - "to fle sa". This is Derek Vogt. He didn't take into account only some nuances so that his recognizable 20% of the text turned into 100%, like mine. I want to express my great respect to him, and it would be interesting for me to talk to him. 

  
  
  

  (01-07-2025, 04:27 PM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for the neural network's response, it is possible that its answer was inaccurate, and Derek Vogt did not translate EVA "dy" as "sa".

  
  So, what are we still talking about?

• RE: Derek Vogt

  Michael Obraztsov > Yesterday, 12:56 PM

  (01-07-2025, 06:44 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (01-07-2025, 02:29 AM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Please have a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. qokeedy Loop of Death
  
  qokedy dy c'hety qokedy qokeedy qokeeedy lol
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
  yc'hedy qokeedy qokeedy olkeedy otey koldy

  
  To add to Jorge Stolfi's point on duplications naturally arising in language, this sort of duplication occurs at the level of letters and short n-grams, as well, so can also be achieved within a substitution cipher scheme. I'll talk about this more at this year's VMD, but in principle, something like qokedy could be parsed as qok|edy where qok- is one plaintext letter and -edy is another plaintext letter. So something like:
  
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy
  
  Could be the letter pattern ABABACACAB.
  
  Alternatively, qokedy, qokeedy, and qokeeedy all look distinct, so each could theoretically stand for an individual plaintext letter, which makes the repetition much more reasonable. Because something like:
  
  qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy
  
  Could encrypt something like the Roman numeral MMXX.
  
   These sorts of approaches are attractive for a variety of reasons, but the fundamental trade-off is that there has to be a lot less meaningful text in the VMS than first impressions would otherwise suggest.

  
  
  Hello. I didn't respond yesterday because there were problems with the Internet (only social networks were working).
  
  Here, "qokedy" is the English "to" + the Old French "fle" ("sprout/shoot") + old French sa ("her"). And "qokeedy" is "to" + the Old French "flu" ("stream") + sa
  
  References to sources:
  
  а) From a treatise on agriculture (13th century, northern France):
  "Quant la fle du pommier est tendre, il la faut lier au bâton, qu’elle ne se brise."
  "When an apple tree shoot is tender, it must be tied to a stick so that it does not break."
  ("Le Livre des profits champêtres",anonymous agricultural manuscript, BN Français 12420)
  б) In a poem about gardening (14th century):
  "La fle de la rose naist en mai, blanche et vermeille."
  "A rose shoot is born in May, white and scarlet."
  ("Le Roman de la Rose" (XIV), MS. Harley 4425, British Library)
  в) In Norman dialects (15th century record):
  "Les flees des cerisiers sont bonnes à greffer."
  "Cherry shoots are good for grafting."
  ("Glossaire du patois normand", J. Morand, 1852, based on earlier entries)

• RE: Derek Vogt

  davidma > Yesterday, 01:27 PM

  (Yesterday, 12:56 PM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello. I didn't respond yesterday because there were problems with the Internet (only social networks were working).
  
  Here, "qokedy" is the English "to" + the Old French "fle" ("sprout/shoot") + old French sa ("her"). And "qokeedy" is "to" + the Old French "flu" ("stream") + sa
  
  References to sources:
  
  а) From a treatise on agriculture (13th century, northern France):
  "Quant la fle du pommier est tendre, il la faut lier au bâton, qu’elle ne se brise."
  "When an apple tree shoot is tender, it must be tied to a stick so that it does not break."
  ("Le Livre des profits champêtres",anonymous agricultural manuscript, BN Français 12420)
  б) In a poem about gardening (14th century):
  "La fle de la rose naist en mai, blanche et vermeille."
  "A rose shoot is born in May, white and scarlet."
  ("Le Roman de la Rose" (XIV), MS. Harley 4425, British Library)
  в) In Norman dialects (15th century record):
  "Les flees des cerisiers sont bonnes à greffer."
  "Cherry shoots are good for grafting."
  ("Glossaire du patois normand", J. Morand, 1852, based on earlier entries)

  
  So according to you the passage translates to:
  
  "to sprout her her [shety] to sprout her to stream her [qokeee] her [lol]
   to stream her to stream her to sprout her to sprout her to stream her [l] her
   [yshe] her to stream her to stream her [olkee] her [otey kol] her"
  
  mmmh

• RE: Derek Vogt

  Michael Obraztsov > Yesterday, 01:27 PM

  (02-07-2025, 12:29 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (01-07-2025, 12:07 AM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The neural network told me that there was a person who translated the EVA encoding "qokedy" like me - "to fle sa". This is Derek Vogt. He didn't take into account only some nuances so that his recognizable 20% of the text turned into 100%, like mine. I want to express my great respect to him, and it would be interesting for me to talk to him. 

  
  
  

  (01-07-2025, 04:27 PM)Michael Obraztsov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for the neural network's response, it is possible that its answer was inaccurate, and Derek Vogt did not translate EVA "dy" as "sa".

  
  So, what are we still talking about?

  
  Hello.
  Yesterday I was unable to respond due to internet issues.
  I posted this article primarily as a confirmation that I am ready to recognize other people as co-authors if they have done something similar, and in this case I am not going to assume the status of the sole discoverer. But the less overlap there is with the results of other studies, the more unique my work becomes. I think my motives in this are quite obvious.
  On the other hand, your motives are not entirely clear to me. I wrote that my cipher is suitable for 100% of the text of the Voynich manuscript. You didn't ask for confirmation, but simply replied with the phrase "what is there to discuss here?" May I know the reasons for your attitude? Are you not interested in deciphering the Voynich manuscript? Or do you meet people every day who claim to have completely deciphered this manuscript? Maybe you meet people like that every week, every month, or at least every year?
  
  I have translated the top half of this (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) page into a fully coherent, meaningful text. Earlier, I partially translated the lower part of this page, but I did not translate it fully coherently, and I did not write down everything that was translated.
  I will post the entire translation of the already translated fragment only when I have translated the lower half of the page, but you can choose any sentence from there (there are 5 sentences), and I will immediately give you its translation, with detailed explanations. I do not recommend reading the first sentence, because there are too many proper names (expressed through allegories), but you still will not be able to uniquely identify plants by comparing the names from the manuscript with modern names.
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