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The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
- The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
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RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
JoJo_Jost > 12-02-2026, 06:39 AM
@ Rene & Stolfi
I admit that I don't know Chinese, but I am of course trying to understand. After all, it's about whether I continue to solve the puzzle or not. I am NOT interested in refuting, but in understanding, i.e. logic.
After hearing your explanation, I have to conclude that my knowledge is obviously not sufficient to follow the theory any further. That's okay. But I must also admit that I am still far from convinced. Seven hits in a text with so many variables is simply not enough for me. In this respect, I will wait until further evidence is provided, evidence that I might then be able to understand.
Just so there are no misunderstandings: I don't mean any of this in a bad way. Part of me would be very happy if there were a solution, whatever it may be. And I’d sincerely be happy for Stolfi if he’s found it. -
RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
Ruby Novacna > 12-02-2026, 08:19 AM
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RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
Jorge_Stolfi > 12-02-2026, 10:54 AM
(12-02-2026, 08:19 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-06-2025, 08:53 AM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A number of people have suggested that the VMS might be in some Chinese language.
I revisited the "Solutions" thread, the famous List, and I didn't see any Chinese theories.
Well, 2 is a number too. Jacques Guy and myself...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
Ruby Novacna > 12-02-2026, 11:10 AM
(12-02-2026, 10:54 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Complete the list, then, please!(12-02-2026, 08:19 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-06-2025, 08:53 AM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A number of people have suggested that the VMS might be in some Chinese language.
I revisited the "Solutions" thread, the famous List, and I didn't see any Chinese theories.
Well, 2 is a number too. Jacques Guy and myself...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
oshfdk > 12-02-2026, 11:48 AM
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RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
nablator > 12-02-2026, 12:09 PM
(12-02-2026, 11:48 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is for solutions, not for suggestions, as far as I understand. I don't know if daiin/dair/laiin=主/? may qualify as a solution on its own.
An entire (pseudo-)paragraph certainly does qualify.
(11-02-2026, 07:08 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.BUT all that is moot now. Even if the (min,max,avg,histogram) did not match, the evidence on page 8 should be proof enough that at last that parag of SPS is an almost word-for-word translation or transcription of the "Rooster" recipe.
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RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
davidma > 12-02-2026, 12:46 PM
(11-02-2026, 07:08 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.BUT all that is moot now. Even if the (min,max,avg,histogram) did not match, the evidence on page 8 should be proof enough that at last that parag of SPS is an almost word-for-word translation or transcription of the "Rooster" recipe.
I am sorry but page 8 has absolutely 0 evidence, and I mean it without offence, but I am quite surprised this is even taken seriously when we have seen "better" explained bogus theories ripped to shreds on this very forum.
As others have already noted, daiin is followed by a bunch of different characters.
Zhu is followed 5 out of 7 times by zhi, once by zia and once by sha. There is no such pattern in the VM. The fact that daiir and odaiin have to be fitted to be daiin to even have a semblance of a match here speaks for itself.
Also, "Dan xiong ji, wei gan wei wen" is somehow "Poar keeo"? -
RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
oshfdk > 12-02-2026, 12:46 PM
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RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
oshfdk > 12-02-2026, 12:53 PM
(12-02-2026, 12:46 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am sorry but page 8 has absolutely 0 evidence, and I mean it without offence, but I am quite surprised this is even taken seriously when we have seen "better" explained bogus theories ripped to shreds on this very forum.
I agree about 0 evidence, but it's not absolutely hopeless. I mean there is still nothing that would conclusively disprove the "Chinese" theory.
(12-02-2026, 12:46 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As others have already noted, daiin is followed by a bunch of different characters.
Zhu is followed 5 out of 7 times by zhi, once by zia and once by sha. There is no such pattern in the VM. The fact that daiir and odaiin have to be fitted to be daiin to even have a semblance of a match here speaks for itself.
This is not a problem, the theory doesn't suggest literally Chinese, but some eastern language with monosyllable structure, so it's ok if the patterns are not fully matched.
(12-02-2026, 12:46 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, "Dan xiong ji, wei gan wei wen" is somehow "Poar keeo"?
This is an abridged version. -
RE: The 'Chinese' Theory: For and Against
davidma > 12-02-2026, 01:06 PM
(12-02-2026, 12:53 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree about 0 evidence, but it's not absolutely hopeless. I mean there is still nothing that would conclusively disprove the "Chinese" theory.
This is not a problem, the theory doesn't suggest literally Chinese, but some eastern language with monosyllable structure, so it's ok if the patterns are not fully matched.
This is an abridged version.
You'll agree with me that leading with "this paper proves the Starred paragraph section is the SBJ" when your "proof" is a poorly fitted positional analysis is borderline delusional. I have nothing against the Chinese theory, however I have to reiterate that to make certain claims one needs strong evidence. If the paper had only suggested that daiin COULD be zhu then ok, but it doesn't, it takes it much further.
On the second point, then it follows that if this isn't literally chinese, then daiin isn't literally zhu or zhu zhi, and the SBS isn't the SBJ. Language is important, if one makes an announcement of this magnitude (possibly THE biggest breakthrough in cracking the VM if this is correct) then I am expecting a lot more than "it could be this, but also that", because this is also what the turkish, the irish and a bunch of other theories do.
Noted on the last point, I had missed the small paragraph under Fig. 7.