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Cursive writing style
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Cursive writing style
tikonen > 25-04-2025, 11:02 AM
Hi,
Old books are one of my hobbies and sometimes I find hand written marginal comments or marks of ownership. Related to that I was researching how to time old handwriting styles and was reminded of "legal hand" writing in 1300-1400's and how much it resembles Voynich style, at least to my untrained eye.
Just wondering, have people looked into legal/court document archives from the region where Manuscript might originate? Maybe it would be possible to find styles that are close to some of the scribes unique styles? I understand Voynich is not a abbreviated speed writing though it looks like it was written by one well versed with the art.
Just my 2 cents. I have just recently learned more about Voynich and I guess I'm on my Dunning-Kruger hill.
Illustrative example attached.
Original sources:
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Sorry, I don't know what happened to formatting. Every time I try to edit it just adds more whitespace. -
RE: Cursive writing style
Bluetoes101 > 25-04-2025, 11:41 AM
Hi and welcome,
One style that has been matched is the use of very tall letters on the top lines of paragraphs in legal documents which are also found in the manuscript via the use of EVA: F and EVA: P.
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I think for an overall style match you need to break it down into tiny bits and assess each one, this has been done and an example is here. In this video I particularly like the image at 4.47 which gives examples of how "a" was written in different times, in different places. There's probably much more extensive work out there, but I thought you may find this short video interesting and easy to digest quickly.
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RE: Cursive writing style
Koen G > 25-04-2025, 11:53 AM
Welcome to the forum!
Marco Ponzi and I have been studying legal and other documents in relation to the marginalia on the VM's final folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The results of this will be published on Voynich Manuscript Day in August.
When it comes to Voynichese script, however, things are more complicated. What looks like "a" may not be intended as an "a" at all. Some glyphs look like numbers (8, 9, 0). Some look like scribal abbreviations.
There's an old thread on the subject here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Cursive writing style
nablator > 25-04-2025, 11:59 AM
Hi tikonen, welcome.
Yes, there are resemblances other than the letters a, o, c, especially with late medieval numerals 4, 7 and abbreviations in Latin manuscripts of the 14th-15th century. This has been discussed many times here, search "cursive" or "macron" and you will find the threads. It is more than the effect of reusing common basic shapes in a made-up alphabet, it also matches the position in the word of y and in. -
RE: Cursive writing style
Aga Tentakulus > 25-04-2025, 12:26 PM
"When it comes to Voynichese script, however, things are more complicated."
Hiding and concealing not possible. -
RE: Cursive writing style
tikonen > 25-04-2025, 12:28 PM
Thank you for the input. I'll study the linked material, the methodology looks really interesting.
I think it's good people use effort to build more context knowledge of the Manuscript as it starts to look like it won't be solved without any external clues about writers or their motivations. -
RE: Cursive writing style
Bluetoes101 > 25-04-2025, 02:35 PM
(25-04-2025, 11:53 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What looks like "a" may not be intended as an "a" at all.
Though the marginalia "a" should be an "a", even if it masks something else, right? As in, it was meant to at least look like what they knew as "a".
Even if we think the main text might just be a load of "c\ \ \" sort of thing, or made up shapes etc.
It makes it hard to say 116v "a" looks different to main text "a" so it might not be from the same time/place/person(s), but one could presumably make a fairly confident comparison between 116v writing (+ maybe also other marginalia) and other text from "time/place/person(s)"? Such as the original post regarding "legal hand".
I don't really have an end-game here, just thinking out loud -
RE: Cursive writing style
Koen G > 25-04-2025, 03:27 PM
(25-04-2025, 02:35 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.but one could presumably make a fairly confident comparison between 116v writing (+ maybe also other marginalia) and other text from "time/place/person(s)"? Such as the original post regarding "legal hand".
That's exactly what I will present at VMD
It's important to note that EVA-a is very clearly different from marginalia-a. I have only searched comparisons for the latter. -
RE: Cursive writing style
Bluetoes101 > 25-04-2025, 07:19 PM
(25-04-2025, 03:27 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(25-04-2025, 02:35 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.but one could presumably make a fairly confident comparison between 116v writing (+ maybe also other marginalia) and other text from "time/place/person(s)"? Such as the original post regarding "legal hand".
That's exactly what I will present at VMD
It's important to note that EVA-a is very clearly different from marginalia-a. I have only searched comparisons for the latter.
I would definitely agree with that! Looking forward to seeing it