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• Grammatical Gender

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 26-04-2025, 01:48 PM

  When you remove a prefixes and suffixes, you end up with  roots, which in the VM are very simple, most of the time a one syllable words. This is what Emma M. Smith, Stolfi and some others pointed out. As for the indication of the gender, in some languages, like Slavic, gender is expressed with suffixes, not with articles. The absence of articles in the VM accounts for the lack of high frequency of short words. In Slavic languages, -l and -il (EVA m) are the most clear indication of singular masculine past and future participle. For the female gender, -a is the most frequent suffix for nouns and for verbs, however since words occur in different declinations, and different conjunction, the suffixes are different. 
  In the Voynich Manuscript, a lot of information can be obtained from prefixes and suffixes.

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  Dobri > 26-04-2025, 05:05 PM

  (26-04-2025, 01:48 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... In Slavic languages, -l and -il (EVA m) are the most clear indication of singular masculine past and future participle. For the female gender, -a is the most frequent suffix for nouns and for verbs, however since words occur in different declinations, and different conjunction, the suffixes are different...

  Also, plural forms in Slavic languages end often in -e which would require using mainly vowels for the last suffix symbols in the cipher manuscript.

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  Ruby Novacna > 26-04-2025, 06:22 PM

  (26-04-2025, 05:05 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, plural forms in Slavic languages end often in -e ...

  
  Dobri, when you talk about Slavic languages, which languages are you talking about exactly?

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  Dobri > 26-04-2025, 06:34 PM

  (26-04-2025, 06:22 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (26-04-2025, 05:05 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, plural forms in Slavic languages end often in -e ...

  
  Dobri, when you talk about Slavic languages, which languages are you talking about exactly?

  Bulgarian is my native language.

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  Ruby Novacna > 26-04-2025, 08:40 PM

  Are there any major differences between modern Bulgarian and 15th-century Bulgarian?

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 26-04-2025, 11:33 PM

  (26-04-2025, 05:05 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, plural forms in Slavic languages end often in -e which would require using mainly vowels for the last suffix symbols in the cipher manuscript.

  Most frequent Slavic suffix is i, which in the VM is spelled as 9-like y. The suffixes overlap (masculine plural noun, feminine singular dative), verbs in infinitive, imperative singular, masculine 3. per. sing., etc.) The final -e is most often pronounced as a short vowel or semivowel, which is not written.

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  anyasophira > 03-05-2025, 12:34 AM

  (04-04-2025, 12:03 PM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think the grammatical structure will be made visible by just rewriting prefixes and suffixes. Any mapping from a prefix or suffix to syllables or any morpheme will render reduplications like qokeedy qokedy qokeedy a bunch of nonsense, and it was already discussed iirc that using characters e.g. edy as markers would make the plain text also repetitive, as the grammatical case marked by say, edy, would be used way too frequently for the languages we are considering, whatever that grammatical case may be

  
  Could you help me understand. I’m new. as markers would make the plain text also repetitive,
  
  What do you mean by markers and by plain text. Thank you!!!

• RE: Grammatical Gender

  RadioFM > 03-05-2025, 06:44 AM

  (03-05-2025, 12:34 AM)anyasophira Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (04-04-2025, 12:03 PM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think the grammatical structure will be made visible by just rewriting prefixes and suffixes. Any mapping from a prefix or suffix to syllables or any morpheme will render reduplications like qokeedy qokedy qokeedy a bunch of nonsense, and it was already discussed iirc that using characters e.g. edy as markers would make the plain text also repetitive, as the grammatical case marked by say, edy, would be used way too frequently for the languages we are considering, whatever that grammatical case may be

  
  Could you help me understand. I’m new. as markers would make the plain text also repetitive,
  
  What do you mean by markers and by plain text. Thank you!!!

  
  Sure.
  Plaintext = decoded text.
  By "markers" I mean sequences of characters attached to a base form of a word that convey additional lexical information, kinda like morphemes in my view but in a code/ciphery way. So you could come up with a cipher in which the word "do" and "jump" are encoded "sch" and "datch" respectively, and their past tense is just encoded by appending the character y at the end of the verb, so "did" is "schy" and "jumped" "datchy".
  
  By 'repetitive' I'm referring to the fact that if the Voynich manuscript were using a similar encoding scheme, some verb tenses or word inflections would be greatly overrepresented while others severely underrepresented, to the point that it wouldn't match the frequencies commonly found in latin, any romance or germanic language.
  
  Now, because I never bothered to personally check these stats and can't remember exactly where I read that factoid (maybe some of the papers mentioned in this thread, voynich.nu, this forum or D'Imperio's Voynich: An Elegant Enigma), I'd suggest you take my claim with a grain of salt.
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