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f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

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• f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

• f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Bluetoes101 > 27-06-2024, 10:05 PM

  My copy of this page was terrible until recently, but I got a better one and had a closer look, there are some really odd things going on! 
  
  Is this a Voynich/Latin mixed word?! It might be a Voynich "s" done... weird.. but the "u/v" is odd, maybe its o and they didn't join up, and the "i" is tilted the wrong way in comparison with rest of text.. just feels like a couple too many "mistakes" in a row?
  
  
  
  

  
  
  The "e" shape reminded me of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia, because of its enlarged size to what I would expect (in modern writing). My Latin knowledge is as far as I could get from what I picked up on posts on here, but I thought it was "st", I had ChatGPT image analyse it and it seemed confident on "e", be interested to hear the real answer from people on here
  
  
  
  
  ḡ?! I thought it said "5" for a second, then saw another one
  
  

  
  
  
  
  There's a lot of very odd things on this pages for normal Voynich text, not as in rare glyphs, but just stuff written strangely. Here's a few examples. I think some of these could just be very bad touch ups or new additions, and so separate from above. I include them though because, maybe.. the person doing these pages was new to Voynich to messed up some text / left some Latin in?
  
  
  
  
  
  Presuming left to right this means the text must be middle to outer.. or some other implication/significance 
  
  
  More "u/v" this does not look like an unfinished "o" looking at rest of text 
  
  
  other strange glyphs
  
  
  
  
  The vord starts with "o"
  
  
  
  
  Full stops? (+ weird glyph combo)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Missed line for "s" or dotted i ? 
  
  
  
  
  I could keep going and going, but you get the picture.. I think most of it could be sort of waved away somehow, but the macrons ḡ ? This looks to be original ink not the darker touch ups
  Personally I think these pages might be a case of "2 dots don't mean anything, but many make a line", too many odd things to put down to just touch ups / fading / marks on page etc, but what do you guys think?

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Helmut Winkler > 28-06-2024, 07:12 AM

  Bluetoes,
  
  the whole ms. is in Latin shorthand, as I have posted before and got confirmed by people who should know. Even if some non-Latinists and -Medievalists try desperately to find a cipher. I mean who is beter qualified to judge a Medieval ms. but a linguist or IT-guy, much better than a long time archivist or a Medievalist
  
  Since I know now, what the ms. is, I am working on it quietly until I have found out more, at present it is a question of time I can spend on it
  
  If your Lain is good enough, just ttry, it is not easy

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Ruby Novacna > 28-06-2024, 02:09 PM

  (28-06-2024, 07:12 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Since I know now, what the ms. is, I am working on it quietly...

  Helmut, do you ever publish your results? This might help us, non-Latinists.

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Bluetoes101 > 28-06-2024, 11:27 PM

  Sure it has been mentioned before probably, but while researching something else I noted the similarities with weird glyphs, macrons and "00000000" with the John Dee copied version of Johannes Trithemius Stegaongraphia
  
  
  
  

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Helmut Winkler > 29-06-2024, 07:40 AM

  (28-06-2024, 02:09 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (28-06-2024, 07:12 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Since I know now, what the ms. is, I am working on it quietly...

  Helmut, do you ever publish your results? This might help us, non-Latinists.

  
  I will some time. I have told you how the method is, everyone can try for himself

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Ruby Novacna > 29-06-2024, 10:41 AM

  My question probably wasn't very clear, so I'll rephrase it. Where can I read your proposals: method and results?

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  nablator > 29-06-2024, 11:48 AM

  Bluetoes101 Wrote:I could keep going and going, but you get the picture.. I think most of it could be sort of waved away somehow, but the macrons ḡ ? This looks to be original ink not the darker touch ups
  Personally I think these pages might be a case of "2 dots don't mean anything, but many make a line", too many odd things to put down to just touch ups / fading / marks on page etc, but what do you guys think?

  
  Most of the anomalies that you highlighted are run-of-the-mill or slightly unusual, like the lopsided 8 shape that mimics (intentionally or not I don't know) cursive "cl". The quality of handwriting in circular texts is often a bit worse, but glyphs remain close to the basic EVA character set with few exceptions (as everywhere else). Nothing suggests Latin, specifically, in these images. The 9 shape with a macron is not a medieval Latin abbreviation as far as I know.

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  oshfdk > 29-06-2024, 01:50 PM

  (27-06-2024, 10:05 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.ḡ?! I thought it said "5" for a second, then saw another one
  

  

  
  These two are interesting, thank you! I never noticed them, even though they are marked as EVA @240; in IVTFF Eva- 2.0 M. Looks like there are only two of them in the whole MS.

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Koen G > 29-06-2024, 03:12 PM

  That looks like a macron on the "9". According to the first list of scribal abbreviations I found, in Latin this could mean "quondam".

• RE: f69v_f70r1_f70r2 - Strange Voynich (Latin?)

  Helmut Winkler > 29-06-2024, 03:37 PM

  (29-06-2024, 10:41 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My question probably wasn't very clear, so I'll rephrase it. Where can I read your proposals: method and results?

  
  There is a thread somewhwere, I am sorry to say I don't have my notes at hand, but it is easily explained. The Vms text is a sequene of Latin abbr., in fact a shorthand.The MA did not develop its own sh., but used the common abbr. system.The best example we know are Luther's Tischgespräche, where the scribes turned Luther's German into abbr. Latin.
  You have to dissolve the abbr. and start guessing what the scribe meant.
  I have very few complete text passages at present that  I an satisfied with, that is why I don't  give anything out and there are lots of things I don't understand. As far as I can see, there is nothing very interesting, a fact which does not drive me on.The Herbal texts for example seem to be more or less quotaions of the current handbooks. Some parrts seem to be preparatorry work for quaestiones literaure
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