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The Rosettes Page - March 2024
- The Rosettes Page - March 2024
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RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 22-03-2024, 10:48 AM
(22-03-2024, 10:05 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For me, as RobGea has said, the Rosette page is a representation of the medieval cosmos. And, honestly, it surprises me that after so many years of study, there is doubt in this. I also believe, like René, that the six containers in the middle represent the healing powers of the medicine that naturally come from the astral influences.
And also like René, I believe that there are a multitude of signs that relate all the sections of Voynich. Those tubes that we see on the Rosettes page are the same tubes that we see on the zodiacal pages and in Quire 13. For me they represent the pathways through which the influences of the stars are transmitted. We also see the containers in another section of the codex with roots and plants, a metaphor for the healing power of medicinal herbs.
Anyway, we can be arguing about this until the end of time. It's a way to pass the time, but not very useful for understanding this book.
I agree. I think the "pipes" represent communication or connection between the physical world and the spiritual world. I see it with a Christian spin. I see the "pipes" representing the communication or connection between the Earthly world and God in the Heavens/Cosmos.
Some see the Rosettes page as a map of a place or multiple places. Some see it as a diagram representing a process. When talking about a spiritual realm, I'm not sure I can make a clear distinction between a place and a process.
Two days ago I made some slides showing the ideas that I have been talking about here about Ensoulment from page f67r1 in Quire 9 to the Rosettes page. I put them in a video. I was going to upload the video to YouTube but Google has locked my YouTube account. You can't push a rope. You can't push Google tech support. It has been around 600 years. I don't think another week will make much difference.
I still don't know about the six things in the center circle. I can see why some people would think they were onion-domed buildings. I can see why some people would think they are containers like some kind of apothecary jars.
Personally, my first impression was that the six things with pointy tops in the middle of the center circle were buildings with onion-dome tops, like St. Basil's Cathedral in Moscow, Russia or the Taj Mahal, India. But, I think onion-dome buildings are generally associated more with eastern churches than with western churches. I don't know how that plays into this story about a book that was supposed to have been made in central Europe. I know a lot has been said about the swallow-tailed crenellation or merlons and where they are generally found. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 22-03-2024, 11:19 AM
Onion-domed buildings were not completely unknown in Europe.
The Basilica of San Marco in Venice
St Mark's Basilica
Basilica di San Marco
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Also, in the first half of the thirteenth century, the original low-lying brick domes, typical of Byzantine churches, were surmounted with higher, outer shells supporting bulbous lanterns with crosses.[43] These wooden frames covered in lead provided more protection from weathering to the actual domes below and gave greater visual prominence to the church.[44][45][46] Various Near-Eastern models have been suggested as sources of inspiration and construction techniques for the heightened domes, including the Al-Aqsa and Qubbat aṣ-Ṣakhra mosques in Jerusalem and the conical frame erected over the dome of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the early thirteenth century. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 22-03-2024, 11:39 AM
(22-03-2024, 11:15 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is called a ciborium.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is also called a ciborium.
If it is the Eucharist then that actually makes a lot of sense and it doesn't matter if it is a building or a container. It is a way to draw an illustration of God. But why would you need six of them? -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Koen G > 22-03-2024, 01:23 PM
For any numbers in the manuscript, there are really two options, which is that the number is either meaningful or not meaningful. If I ask you to draw a fruit bowl with multiple apples, you need to decide on a number of apples more than 1. The number of apples you draw does not need to be significant.
However, if the diagram is indeed symbolic in nature, then we can probably expect at least some numbers to be meaningful. For six, the best I have found so far is that according to Augustine, we are currently living in the sixth age of the world (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ). When the sixth age is fulfilled, Heavenly Jerusalem will come down to Earth, the ruling powers will be overthrown, the dead will be raised from their graves, the last judgement will take place etc.
There is even a connection to vessels. In John 2, it said that Jesus turned six vessels of water into wine at the wedding in Cana.
Here only three are depicted, but I like the way they look:
![[Image: untitled-9-copy-1.jpg]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/untitled-9-copy-1.jpg)
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Turning again to the Church Father Augustine, we learn how the six jars at Cana should be understood in a teleological sense:
Quote:Hence there were there six water-pots, which He bade be filled with water. Now the six water-pots signify the six ages, which were not without prophecy. And those six periods, divided and separated as it were by joints, would be as empty vessels unless they were filled by Christ. Why did I say, the periods which would run fruitlessly on, unless the Lord Jesus were preached in them? Prophecies are fulfilled, the water-pots are full; but that the water may be turned into wine, Christ must be understood in that whole prophecy. (Tractates on John 9.6)
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RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 01-04-2024, 09:45 AM
Thinking about the Rosettes foldout and trying to understand how other people approach it. At a high level it does not look like a map. 9 very large circles arranged 3x3 with the outer circles connected on the face of it are nothing like a map. I think the key is the low level i.e. the details which make it look like a map. And I think many people look at the page at a high level overview and pay little or no significant attention to the low level details.
Why did the author choose to represent their map with 9 circles? I think this is partly a stylist consideration rather than one of necessity. At that time in Northern Italy people were quite creative in how they produced maps as Professor Paul Harvey says in his book "Medieval Maps" and to me in person, so to have a distinctive design was not unusual. I think the author wanted to some extent to produce their own unique design. I personally doubt we will find another map like it, from that time, as I don't think the author copied the map from another document. I think part of the design was that the corner large circles provided a zoom in on a specific location at a different scale from the connecting causeway. So the circle could represent a magnifying glass focusing on specific details the author found important. So we have a zoom in on Milan and a zoom in on the Abbey of Saints Nazzaro and Celso and a zoom in on the Council of Basel. The centre side circles also act to zoom in on certain features the author has chosen to highlight. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
ReneZ > 01-04-2024, 10:09 AM
In a high-level description, I think that the four smaller items in the corners should be included.
They add to the overall symmetry.
These seem to be two times a sun, one T-O map and one 'not-a-clock'. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 01-04-2024, 10:40 AM
(01-04-2024, 10:09 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In a high-level description, I think that the four smaller items in the corners should be included.
They add to the overall symmetry.
These seem to be two times a sun, one T-O map and one 'not-a-clock'.
I would have thought of those as low-level details, but to some extent the distinction between low-level details and high-level details is of course arbitrary and up to the individual. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 01-04-2024, 11:26 AM
Clearly the Rosettes page was very important to the creators of the Voynich Manuscript. It is the largest page in the book. No other page come close to being as large as the Rosettes page.
But it is still only one page.
It is one page in a larger book. If you are going to zoom out and look at the larger picture, you have to look at more than just the Rosettes page.
Can we have a discussion on the order in which the pages of Quire 14 should be read? The jasondavies.com website has them like this:
Quire 14
f85r1
f85r2_f86v4_f86v6
f86v5_f86v3
Ros
Ros2
That was the order I was originally reading them. Then someone, I think it was ReneZ, said something about what was on the back of the Rosettes page. That got me thinking about this one large piece of parchment and how it was folded. I actually took a piece of note paper and started folding it to try to make it look like Quire 14. That was when I decided that f86v5_f86v3 should be read after the Rosettes page. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Aga Tentakulus > 01-04-2024, 12:25 PM
Not a theory, but a train of thought on "These appear to be two times a sun, a T-O card and a "non-clock"."
If the shadow between 2 suns is the same length, it is noon. And that's the same all over the world.
Now you have a sunrise and a sunset.
Now you could also see where is east when noon is in the middle.