merrimacga > 10-10-2023, 11:33 AM
(10-10-2023, 10:55 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is something needed from me to connect the blogosphere thing?
Koen G > 10-10-2023, 12:03 PM
(10-10-2023, 10:55 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is something needed from me to connect the blogosphere thing?
Juan_Sali > 10-10-2023, 12:12 PM
(09-10-2023, 07:28 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I tried recreating various astrological patterns and comparing them to f67r2 and found a good match with a partial domicile chart. After this IThis is a good match. Though it doesnt mean that the VMS follows the same order.
encountered the same pattern in 1490x - 1500x editions of De Sphere Mundi. If it's the same pattern, in Voynich manuscript it's rotated 160 degrees
clockwise (putting Jupiter on top).
(09-10-2023, 07:28 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's possible to create potential mappings between various labels on f67r2 and astrological/astronomical concepts using this information.I have been also working in something like this, trying to match the labels with the planets. If they are the plantets, is there any logic in the VMS in the order of the planets? I have also tryed it as a domicile chart but the labels doesnt match well with the names of the plantets (I am also wiorking with other labels in other folios).
oshfdk > 10-10-2023, 12:48 PM
(10-10-2023, 12:12 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have been also working in something like this, trying to match the labels with the planets. If they are the plantets, is there any logic in the VMS in the order of the planets?
Quote:I have also tryed it as a domicile chart but the labels doesnt match well with the names of the plantets (I am also wiorking with other labels in other folios).
Quote:My last idea in progress is the following: the planets are ordered by the day they are relationed with, they follow the days of the week: your Jupiter okal would be Sun (Sunday), and to the right Moon (Monday), Mars (Tuesday), Mercury (Wednesday), Jupiter (Thursday), Venus (Fryday), Saturn (Saturday). This order matchs better with the labels, but still I have some problems to match all the labels with the planets.
MarcoP > 10-10-2023, 05:33 PM
Quote:I have no strong opinion on the underlying language, if there is any at all, so I can't tell whether the labels match or not. That's why I chose to ignore them altogether when looking at patterns. I guess the language could be anything known in or before the 1400s. It could be something well known now like Latin or Greek, but also Venetian or Maltese or some other obscure regional or global language.
oshfdk > 10-10-2023, 06:24 PM
(10-10-2023, 05:33 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you are new to the subject, maybe you haven't read about conditional character entropy yet.
oshfdk > 11-10-2023, 05:40 AM
MarcoP > 11-10-2023, 07:48 PM
(10-10-2023, 06:24 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If this method works on character level, has few or no nulls and is additive in nature, then in general the longer the word or phrase you encode the longer the result. Under these assumptions it makes sense to compare the lengths of various labels even if we have no idea about the specifics of the algorithm used.
(11-10-2023, 05:40 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.my favorite hypothesis on VMS writing is that it is a many-to-many character based scheme, where depending on some unknown factor the same plaintext can be encoded in different ways and at the same time the same transliteration of the encoded text can produce different plaintexts.
oshfdk > 12-10-2023, 07:36 AM
(11-10-2023, 07:48 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure I understand correctly, but I don't know how these ideas explain the available evidence.
1. Though average word length is comparable for Voynichese and ordinary European languages, the shape of the distribution is significantly different. In particular, Voynichese has fewer short and long word tokens than ordinary languages (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
2. A simple example of a many-to-many cipher would be a Caesar cipher where words are written in "Boustrophedon" style, i.e. alternating left-to-right and right-to-left for each line, so that 'wolf' can be ciphered as 'XPMG' or 'GMPX', and both 'XPMG' and 'GMPX' can be decoded as both 'wolf' and 'flow'. This would increase character conditional entropy (while we are looking for methods that decrease entropy) since each bigram would occur in both its original and reversed form with the same frequency (e.g. TH vs HT, CK vs KC). Also, this cipher does not explain why consecutive words tend to be similar in Voynichese (e.g. <f108r.42> okeey.qokeey.qokeedy.qokeey). Maybe this method is not what you are thinking of, but it seems compatible with the description you gave.
nablator > 13-10-2023, 06:07 PM