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  • [Article] Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
• Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

• Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  Jacinto Gimenez > 29-08-2023, 10:26 AM

  First of all, greetings to all Voynich manuscript enthusiasts.
  
  I expose in this article uploaded in ResearchGate:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  The method of decoding the manuscript, as well as my logical process that has led me to a series of hypotheses and conclusions that turn radically all the research efforts to decrypt the manuscript that have been attempted until now.
  
  
  I believe that this discovery will open up new lines of research in various areas of knowledge: Linguistics, Botany, History, Astronomy, etc.
  
  Your feedback is always welcome.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  davidjackson > 29-08-2023, 10:51 AM

  Thank you Jacinto I look forwards to reading it

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  pegalac > 29-08-2023, 12:28 PM

  (29-08-2023, 10:26 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.First of all, greetings to all Voynich manuscript enthusiasts.
  
  I expose in this article uploaded in ResearchGate:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  The method of decoding the manuscript, as well as my logical process that has led me to a series of hypotheses and conclusions that turn radically all the research efforts to decrypt the manuscript that have been attempted until now.
  
  
  I believe that this discovery will open up new lines of research in various areas of knowledge: Linguistics, Botany, History, Astronomy, etc.
  
  Your feedback is always welcome.

  
  I've already read part of it and I have to tell you that you have something in common with me that I've noticed too ^^.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  Koen G > 29-08-2023, 03:26 PM

  I was surprised to see that you suppose all plants in the manuscript are native to Mexico, and then propose Maranta Leuconera and Calathea Makoyana, both native to the Brazilian rainforests. Also, I am looking at sunflowers in my garden right now and I can assure you their leaves look nothing like those depicted on f3v. Nor really does any other part of the plant, for that matter. 
  
  The idea that the VM might be an American codex is an old one, but as always it is based on very questionable plant identifications. This while research shows time and time again that all relevant aspects of the manuscripts can be dated to the first half of the 15th century.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  merrimacga > 29-08-2023, 04:52 PM

  Greetings Jacinto and welcome!
  
  I must say, though I have only cursorily skimmed through your paper so far, I am impressed with how you have thought this out, especially how you have taken a somewhat whole document approach to it.
  
  In my own research thus far, I have ruled out an American source for the VM but I am only at the beginning of my research and I expect to be proven wrong in many suppositions I come up with along the way. For one thing, every time I research a VM plant, the most likely possibilities, the best matches, keep coming back to South America and Indonesia as sources. For another, based on suppositions I've seen that the vellum is a lesser quality than would be used for commissioned manuscripts and the quality of the work throughout seems somewhat haphazard, I am leaning towards the VM being the personal notes of whoever created it, meant to be a collection of thoughts recorded for future reference rather than a careful study meant for distribution to others. And finally, I can't escape the feeling the VM was written by someone with an incomplete education, that many aspects of many of the drawings seem somewhat rudimentary. All of these observances could fit your hypothesis.
  
  I think you have a good beginning but, by your own admission, you leave a lot of unanswered questions and it will be interesting to see you explore them and add to your research. Your paper doesn't discuss the balneological, astronomical or cosmological sections of the VM at all. This is why I said you have taken a somewhat whole document approach. It will be really interesting to see if you can incorporate these sections into your research and still come to the same conclusions. I think your hypothesis could potentially benefit from connecting with other researchers, specifically those familiar with the Nahuatl language but also others who are well versed in Mesoamerican archaeology and history, especially the work of the early missionaries. If you haven't already, here are a few links you might want to check out:
  
  Magnus P. Hansen's 2018 blog article: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Nick Pelling's 2014 blog article on his Cipher Mysteries site: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Tucker and Talbert's 2013 paper published on HerbalGram: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  The first two researchers were pretty critical of the third work above but you may still find it useful. If you search this site, you will find Nahuatl has been brought up many times so you might want to connect specifically with some of those members as well as post threads here to collaborate on specific questions you want to address. You will find lots of help here. I hope you continue your research into this hypothesis and I look forward to what else you discover. Just remember nothing is ever wrong until it is proven as such.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  pegalac > 29-08-2023, 05:45 PM

  Don't forget that Leif Erikson discovered America in the year 1000, I believe.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 29-08-2023, 08:19 PM

  Hi, there, 
  
  I have examined the Nahuatl theory after I read an article by Austrian researcher Mila Deacon (unrelated to the Voynich Manscript) in which she is claiming that there are many Nahuatl words similar to the ancient Wendish/Illyrian language, such as, particularly the ancient names for the weapons. Another researcher, unrelated to Voynich or M. Deacon, found the similarity in the shields of Nahuatl warriors from Codex Florentine to the  Spartan shield with Lambda sign, Illyrian shield with five circles, and Illyrian shield with two birds (depicted in the belt buckle in 230 BC). I was particularly interested in the word KAČA which is a unique Slovenian/Illyrian word for a snake, and my research led me to the KACHY people and snake worshippers in Central America. This is very interesting, because the Illyrians and Liburnians were known as snake worshippers. Even today, there are many legends about good white snakes guarding the treasure. 
  Also, in the region of ancient Liburnia (east coast of Northern Adriatic), the ancient legends have been preserved about the sailors travelled to far away places where the red-skinned kings were sitting on the golden thrones, stayed there for a long time and when they came back, they were not recognized.  These legend could have originated by the Liburnian sailors who took part in the Cabot's or Columbus' expedition to North America. They might even be older, from the times when Liburnians dominated the Mediterranian Sea, or ancient Phonicians. Or from the time when Scythian  Roman general Aeticus Istriotes had explored distant places he apparently described in his diary, which some believe was translated by St. Jerome, a native of Illyria. His travelogue was mentioned by Isidor of Seville. 
  By the way, when the translation sounds too good to be true, 
  Whatever the case, there is no telling when the sunflower was first transplanted to Europe. I find it mentioned in the Slovenian Illyrian dictionary of  1649, where it is listed as CVJET SUNČANI and translated as GIRA SOLE or herba folaris. 
  As it looks, the Voynich researchers also have problem identifying the sunflower.  
  The pictures and the vocabulary could have been influenced by the monks who had spread Christianity in the New Word.  
  
  In spite of all these coincidental similarities, I do not believe the Voynich Manuscript was written in Nahuatl, nor in New Mexico.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  Jacinto Gimenez > 29-08-2023, 09:17 PM

  Thanks for the feedback,
  
  As I comment in the paper, I am not an expert in botany or linguistics, but when the translation of the first page is done following the proposed cipher table and a coherent story appears with the words bird, snake, amaranth, etc., and you see those figures drawn on the page it seems too good to be a coincidence. The same with the plants on the following pages, the word related to the drawing always appears. Coincidence?
  
  
  I recognise my limitations of knowledge of Nahuatl, I think that someone expert in linguistics making use of the cipher table would immediately see it more clearly.
  
  
  Thanks for the links merrimacga, about your comment "Your paper doesn't discuss the balneological, astronomical or cosmological sections of the VM at all" it's true, I haven't arrive to those sections yet as the botany part is very extensive, but I had a look at page 67r and it talks about a calendar of local fests.
  
  I will continue translating little by little, but please, if there is someone who knows the Nahuatl language, it would be of great help.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  merrimacga > 30-08-2023, 01:15 AM

  (29-08-2023, 09:17 PM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I will continue translating little by little, but please, if there is someone who knows the Nahuatl language, it would be of great help.

  
  Judging by the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I think you will need someone who has studied Classical Nahuatl, the early literary form of the language developed after the Spanish conquest. Hopefully someone here has and, if no one introduces themselves to you as such, an administrator or an editor here may know of such a member. But I think it likely you will have to search outside this site. In which case, you might take a look at these links and try to contact some of the persons noted, even though I don't think any of them have VM connections:
  
  Florentine Codex project at the Getty Research Institute: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is composed of 12 books, all illuminated manuscripts, written in Mexico City in the 16th century as an ethnographic research study on Mesoamerica. Started in 2015, the project team's goal is to create an enhanced online edition with Nahuatl and Spanish translations, English and Spanish translations, and searchable text and images, which should be launched this year. I would imagine any of the team members would be great sources for you to connect with but two stand out in particular: Project Lead You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of the Getty Research Institute and Co-Head You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Professor of History at UCLA (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
  
  Harvard Nahuatl Language Study Group, Harvard Gazette article: 
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  It is a group effort to learn the Nahuatl language under the guidance of historian You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), who specializes in Mesoamerican ethnohistory. They also worked on interpreting the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. housed at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I didn't find any contact info for the study group, though.
  
  And of course Magnus Hansen from my previous post would be a good contact. You should probably try him on his blog site first but here is his staff page on the University of Copenhagen website: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl

  R. Sale > 30-08-2023, 07:37 PM

  There's a lot to be seen in these interesting, florescent investigations, not to diminish their significance, however as to their actual relationship to the VMs origins and contents, they become increasingly irrelevant. Instead, "Ready Player One", the trick is to go in the opposite direction. Instead of florescent, go radical. Go to the root, go to the roots of the VMs.
  
  Among the most obvious of cultural artifacts in the VMs, one must certainly include the medallions of the VMs Zodiac sequence and the somewhat unsettling primacy of VMs Pisces. For the era of the VMs C-14 dates, this seems indicative of a 'European' connection. More specifically, the similarities between the VMs cosmos and the historical cosmic illustrations of BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334 share a particular example of cosmic structure, with historical provenance to Paris in the C-14 years.
  
  Specifically, within the VMs cosmos, the use of a nebuly line as a cosmic boundary has European artistic tradition written all over it.
  
  Another radical connection exists between the VMs "mermaid" (f79v) and the mermaid in Harley 334 - a second connection with that manuscript. This is also a connection to the story of Melusine as a mythical ancestor of the Valois rulers of the C-14 years (through Bonne of Luxembourg).
  
  Just with these two illustrations, it's hard to see the VMs in a 'New World' context, without showing some radical, New World connections.
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