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Can we make isoglosses?
- Can we make isoglosses?
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RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > 09-05-2023, 07:34 AM
If "gas" is an abbreviation, then I would lean towards the "nim mich gahes" interpretation someone suggested earlier. I found a number of examples, listed in my recent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Werder tot, so nim mich schier. (Mai und Beaflor)
O Herr Jeſu Chriſte
wann du wilt
ſo nim mich zu dir
Muling, Michael: Eine Christliche Leichpredigt. Wittenberg, 1615.
O Vatter kan eß sein
So nim mich bald von hinen,
Doch gschech der willen dein.
Die Liederhandschrift Y 56 der Thurgauischen Kantonsbibliothek zu Frauenfeld
It is worth pointing out that two of these examples include a word for "quickly" or "soon": schier and bald. The difficulty with "so nim gahes mich" is probably the word order though, that feels a bit shaky. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Helmut Winkler > 09-05-2023, 08:26 AM
gs is an abbr..gas a solution. And the word order id o.k. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > 09-05-2023, 08:46 AM
@Koen
Just read your link.
Have seen something where seems to be unclear.
That "so nim" suddenly means "fo nim".
Sometimes "nim" is reversed, "min" a bit hard to read.
Now means " fo min" von meine / meinem (from mine). fo=vo
Sometimes, "so nim fo min (mim)" (so take from my / mine). -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > 09-05-2023, 09:34 AM
Do you mean I included an example where "so nim" should have been "fo min"? That is certainly possible, I always relied on transcriptions without double checking the original sources. Which one is it? -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > 09-05-2023, 09:42 AM
(09-05-2023, 08:26 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.gs is an abbr..gas a solution. And the word order id o.k.
I know the word order of "so nim geiss milch" is okay. But is "so nim gahes mich" also an acceptable word order? It sounds weird to me, but then again, a sentence like "so nim gahes mich" would most likely have appeared in a more poetic context (verses), where word order is sometimes altered to suit meter and rhyme.
I'm also not clear on the abbreviation bit. Do you mean someone wanted to abbreviate the word "gas" and then decided to add in the "a" after all? Wouldn't the solution be "gais" then? -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Bernd > 09-05-2023, 09:47 AM
@Aga Tentakulus
Where did you read "fo nim"?
In "Christliche Leichtpredigt it's without doubt "so", the character " ſ " is the old "s" as in Jeſu Chriſte. It's just an OCR glitch from scanning,
I am still not convinced about mich -> Milch unless it is a scribal error. if gas - gahes it is noteworthy that the modern Austrian / Viennese counterpart would be "gach" with a long a but I do not know how widespread it is and if there are areas with spelling variations, especially in the south.
Regarding "ubren" it could be related to -burn / -burnt, a dialect form of "angebrannt" but this would miss at "t" the end. Or it could mean "oberen" - the upper ones. But the entire "palden ubren" looks fishy and overwritten or amended. I can't make any sense of it and maybe there is none if it really is just a pen test. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Helmut Winkler > 09-05-2023, 10:24 AM
(09-05-2023, 09:42 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-05-2023, 08:26 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.gs is an abbr..gas a solution. And the word order id o.k.
I know the word order of "so nim geiss milch" is okay. But is "so nim gahes mich" also an acceptable word order? It sounds weird to me, but then again, a sentence like "so nim gahes mich" would most likely have appeared in a more poetic context (verses), where word order is sometimes altered to suit meter and rhyme.
I'm also not clear on the abbreviation bit. Do you mean someone wanted to abbreviate the word "gas" and then decided to add in the "a" after all? Wouldn't the solution be "gais" then?
I dont know the meaniing of gahes
gas/gais, I think both are a possibility, the scribe wrote gs with a long extension of the g and inserted a single a, I see no other way -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > 09-05-2023, 10:25 AM
The "fo min" is a quite plausible variant.
nim, min, mim, in ,im are always difficult to read, because the dot of the "i" is somewhere.
O min gott, and not O nim gott.
I don't know if you have a spelling mistake or a variant here. But both are possible.
"valden vbren" would be possible "fall den v'bren so nim....." burn / verbrennen -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > 09-05-2023, 10:33 AM
For me it is clear.
I am pronouncing a curse. ( against something )
Aids, maybe goat liver.
I must neutralize the curse. ( heilige Maria )
Warning:
If I do something wrong above so it catches me too.
"so nimtz as mich o" so it catches me also -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > 09-05-2023, 10:40 AM
For me.
Normal "tz" and normal "g".
He wanted to write "t", corrected it with a "z".
The whole sentence is correct.