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RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Jorge_Stolfi > 19-10-2025, 11:11 AM

(19-10-2025, 04:09 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The part being discussed before was more related to the small baseline jumps. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. may be the thread. [... ]The overall appearance (to me) is more that of the scribe taking lots of short breaks.

I You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. my view of this issue on that thread. The Scribe surely took breaks, but they need not have been that frequent. The baselines wander about even within each word...

All the best, --stolfi
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 20-10-2025, 05:54 PM
Words shed-
At least nine words beginning with shed- are declined forms of two,
σχέδη – leaf, page
and σχέδος – lesson, note, page :
1. shedy – σχέδη or σχέδος;
2. shedor – σχέδος;
3. shedey – σχέδεος, gen of σχέδος;
4. shedol – σχέδᾱ, dual of σχέδη;
5. shedal – σχέδαι, plural of σχέδη;
6. shedaiin – σχεδῶν, gen pl of σχέδη;
7. shedair – σχέδαις, dat pl of σχέδη;
8. shedar – σχέδᾱς, acc pl of σχέδη;
9. shedam – σχεδάριον – dim. of σχέδη.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 21-10-2025, 09:59 PM

Some word.shedy groups
If the word shedy and its derivatives mean « note », « page », the word groups « dcheeos shedy » (115r.2) and « dcheos shedar » (115r.44) can be equivalent: « θύος σχέδη » and « θύος σχέδᾱς » for « incense page » and « incense pages »?
Similarly, the groups « pchedar shedy » (83r.1), « pchedar shedal » (83v.11) and « fchedol shedy » (115v.38), would be respectively « φυτάς σχέδη », « φυτάς σχέδαι » and « φυτά σχέδη » for « page plant », « pages plant », and « page plants ».
The words « pardy shedy » (39v.7) would be « παρδή σχέδη » for « page wind (fart) ».
The group « lodaiin shedy » (46v.5) would be « λωτῶν σχέδη » – « page of lotuses (flutes, specula) ».
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 23-10-2025, 02:25 AM
Word lolchedy from 75v
The last word of line 28 of 75v, « lolchedy, » is unique, unfortunately reminiscent of several Greek words at once:
1. λαγετας – leader,
2. λαγιδευς – leveret,
3. Λαγίδης – Ptolemy,
4. λακετας – cicada,
5. λακιδες – tatters, eunuchs.
Since my goal at this stage is to combine several words at once, I’ll try to read with the preceding word « qokeedy. »
With its 305 occurrences, « qokeedy » must be among the most frequent in the manuscript, without this making it any more understandable.
Indeed, my current proposal is that it comes from the verb δονέω – to shake, to agitate, and which is used in various situations, such as :
1. wheel, of troops;
2. of the wind driving the clouds before it;
3. drive about, of the horsefly that stings oxen;
4. of the whip that makes one flee;
5. shake, of the wind shaking the trees;
6. beat, stir milk, to make butter;
7. brandish (a javelin);
8. rouse the voice of song, of sound, murmur, buzz, of bees;
9. excites, of a smell that makes the nostrils dilate;
10. disturb, terrify, origin of love, agitate, excite;
11. disturb, of popular troubles, revolutions, wars, in the moral sense to disturb the soul, to agitate one’s mind.
Another possibility is δονητος – shaken, lat agitabilis – easily moved, mobile.
With so many possibilities I feel lost, is it the sound of cicadas, the excitement of eunuchs or something else?
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Stefan Wirtz_2 > 23-10-2025, 02:59 PM

Yes, you are proving that Voynichese is not Greek at all with every further posting of guesswork-greek, changing assumptions and shifting characters' meanings.
How many years are you doing this already?
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 24-10-2025, 02:31 AM

(23-10-2025, 02:59 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How many years are you doing this already?

Not long enough to have a reason to be discouraged, just about fifteen years.

(23-10-2025, 02:59 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, you are proving that Voynichese is not Greek at all with every further posting of guesswork-greek, changing assumptions and shifting characters' meanings.

What do you object to in my proposed reading of the word shedy and its cognates, for example?
How do you interpret them in your translation?
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Stefan Wirtz_2 > 24-10-2025, 11:01 PM

What do you mean by "shedy"?

For starters, I do not see this "h" as a separate letter in VMS at all, but only as one of the flaws in EVA.

I think you mean this: Shedy"

Did not identify the combination symbol Sh yet, and I am quite, but not finally sure that e is our letter o.
In my little world the dy equivalents to ka or kya, as I see the base of VMS character set more influenced by cyrillic than greek.
So the last three letters would be -oka or okya, окя .

I "translated" only those words which I estimated with a good chance to be names; I do not perform any further translation-tries now, as I have no source language yet and a too little character set.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 25-10-2025, 09:14 AM

(24-10-2025, 11:01 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you mean by "shedy"?
For starters, I do not see this "h" as a separate letter in VMS at all, but only as one of the flaws in EVA.
I think you mean this: Shedy"
Did not identify the combination symbol Sh yet, and I am quite, but not finally sure that e is our letter o.
In my little world the dy equivalents to ka or kya, as I see the base of VMS character set more influenced by cyrillic than greek.
So the last three letters would be -oka or okya, окя .
I "translated" only those words which I estimated with a good chance to be names; I do not perform any further translation-tries now, as I have no source language yet and a too little character set.

Thanks, Stefan!
If I understand correctly, you have no arguments for or against my interpretation of "shedy" & Co. in Greek; you're only interested in the shape of the glyphs.
I find this curious, because in the region you described in your thread, shouldn't the Greek language be lacking?
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Stefan Wirtz_2 > 26-10-2025, 10:06 PM

(25-10-2025, 09:14 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
If I understand correctly, you have no arguments for or against my interpretation of "shedy" & Co. in Greek; you're only interested in the shape of the glyphs.

I do not intent to support or object your theory of Voynichese being Greek - I doubt you are doing that here.
But a main argument against your translation would be your understanding of all VMS characters, apart from any different understandings about their number or even "shape".
As showed, everybody has a different understanding of them, and I do not remember any understandable development of your letter assignments from this post or your blog or webpage, whatever.

I don't quite get this one here, what do you mean?

Ruby Novacna Wrote:I find this curious, because in the region you described in your thread, shouldn't the Greek language be lacking?

I have several threads here. If you mean the one where I describe the VMS Map showing a region of Crimea and maybe some north of it (better explained in my video You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ):
yes, during the VMS period existed a small nation called Theodoro in south Crimea, with Byzantine roots, they spoke and wrote Greek.
In another (new) nation, Crimean Khanate in the North, some Karaitan jews lived in Chufut Kale, a mountain fortress close to later Bakhchassaray and Mangup. They spoke and wrote a version of Greek, but wrote also Hebrew.
Plus all Genuese harbours at south coast with surely a mix of different inhabitants.

But there are 2 things:
1. whoever lives in a region, does merely not need a map of his peninsula, this is more important for distant visitors. With 4-5 harbours and international trade, this is not very helpful.
So I never claimed the whole VMS book originating in Crimea, but only the Map being about that region.
And that pushes back the Greek option a bit.

2. Greek is a rather complex, fully defined language since ~3,000 years. The grammar and the alphabet are set since an eternity, all developments and dialects are well-known and can be tracked to their roots. Yes, modern greek is different to it's ancient origin, but there is no unknown white patch of this language.
Greek in all it's forms is just too complicated by alphabet, words' structures, vocabulary and grammar for those poor little glyphs and vords of VMS.

It simply isn't Greek.
RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

Ruby Novacna > 30-10-2025, 07:34 PM

Words keol.chokeol

The two words in line 30 of 108v « keol (20) chokeol (5) » can be read as « νέοι γονιοί » – the young (or new) parents.
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RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?

RE: How to prove that the B-language is not Greek?