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Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
- Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
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RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
Rafal > Yesterday, 12:13 PM
Facebook displays me posts of Eleonora from time too time. I believe she's quite active on Facebook but seems not to like Voynich Ninja
She certainly has academic background and scholar achievements.
She also gives you a lot of historical knowledge from Germanic tribes to lunisolar calendars which may be relevant or not.
But at the end of the day it's the solution's quality that matters and her solution suffers from the same weaknesses as many other here.
Have a look:
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We have all the usual stuff here:
- simple substitution, maybe with some extensions
- output that doesn't make sense: "es glo flo es es ax es dat an dan ...."
- heavy interpretation in subjective, polyglot way
- final result which still doesn't make sense and looks like ravings of a madman:
"it glows flows it is driven it that on there on it there on" -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
tavie > Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
eleonoramatarrese > 3 hours ago
Hi Rafal, nice to meet you.
I do not like forums since usually people are not polite and pretend a lot. This said, thanks for your post.
You simply copied and paste a transliteration I published on my Facebook account, protected by copyright (this means according to the Italian and international law it can be posted mentioning ISBN or where you find it, i.e. link, author, title of the work, etc.).
Two pages are not the full work.
Anyway, just two considerations:
1. I have transliterated and translated the whole codex, and a folio isn't the whole codex.
2. Germanic is a reconstructed language on the basis of the so-called "daughter languages", which are similar yet very different. The language of the codex is old, this means in order to be understood, it *has* to be compared to existing languages.
a) there is no dictionary available;
b) if you know how to compare languages and how to convey meanings in philology you know how to go back up to original meanings and to a discourse/text that makes sense.
Naturally, when a language is reconstructed this means it has been reconstructed *by man* and consequently unless you find proper textual evidence (also in art inscriptions, not only in "readable" texts), you should proceed through comparative philology.
Please correct me if I'm wrong: I don't think anyone has yet transliterated and translated more than a few scattered words and perhaps a few sentences that don't actually make sense. Moreover, providing a complete list of characters, that is a sort of alphabet (with Tironian notes and ligatures it is not academically correct to speak of an "alphabet" tout court).
In my last publication you will find the first folio, the calendar until May, folio 57v, folio 116v, and part of the cosmological treatise, almost fully transliterated and translated, with philological analysis provided for every context. This means that words are considered not on their own, but in the sentence, in the paragraph, in the context, as well as pairing with iconographical analysis.
My work is available for free, although it has been published and it has ISBN and is protected by law.
I forgot to say there is other manuscripts with the Voynich main script, at least six characters/ligatures/digraphs, and they are mentioned and compared.
I haven't published all the photos I've been making in the last years throughout Europe and churches, museums, libraries etc., however most of links where evidence is available online are provided.
Thanks for reading me.
Regards,
Eleonora
p.s. it seems I can't upload my file here, so here is a Facebook public link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
eleonoramatarrese > 3 hours ago
(Yesterday, 01:11 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Yesterday, 12:13 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.- final result which still doesn't make sense and looks like ravings of a madman:
"it glows flows it is driven it that on there on it there on"
Leave the foot!
Ancient and old languages do not have syntax and grammar as modern ones. Moreover, considering an old manuscript, one must consider economy, in terms of use of parchment, inks, pigments, Time. This means that the whole thing must be considered, already when beginning to approach it, something "narrow". Just an example: the very first "sentence" in the so-called balneological treatise, is just as simple: "Bat er dat". These are the bains/thermae.
p.s.: to Rafal - these being the answers, I don't think that a forum is a serious place from a scientific (and not only) point of view where I can spend my time ;-) -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
tavie > 3 hours ago
(3 hours ago)eleonoramatarrese Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ancient and old languages do not have syntax and grammar as modern ones.
Please do share other contemporary manuscripts or texts written in - I presume - Early High New German or late MHG or whichever Germanic dialect your system is based on - that have a similar syntax (or lack thereof) to "it glows flows it is driven it that on there on it there on". -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
eleonoramatarrese > 3 hours ago
Please read You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Then you’ll understand that radiocarbon dating refers to parchment and pigments, however the content is older in a language considered extinct. Iconography helps in that.
However, in Cod. Monacensis 337, last folio, right column, you’ll find some VM characters and their Latin equivalent.
Also, consider referring to Orel 2003, Handbook of Germanic Etymology, Leiden, Brill, as well as MHG and Saxon dictionaries, where is evident that MHG words and syntax, for example, didn’t follow modern rules (or those we consider now, even consonantal shift, Verner and Grimm’s laws).
Moreover, in my endnotes you’ll find reference to academic papers of linguists studying the redundancy and repetition of words in the same sentence as being typical of this language.
After you read, I’m willing to discuss further.
Thank you. -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
Kendiyas > 2 hours ago
(3 hours ago)eleonoramatarrese Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.p.s.: to Rafal - these being the answers, I don't think that a forum is a serious place from a scientific (and not only) point of view where I can spend my time ;-)
Professor, this forum is as serious and scientific as it gets for the voynich manuscript discussions. Certainly more serious than facebook. -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
eleonoramatarrese > 2 hours ago
To me being serious also means not being aggressive in a more or less veiled way. -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
tavie > 2 hours ago
I've read MHG texts. The syntax in these texts is not radically different from modern German, and it isn't a word salad. Word salads are a recurring problem with Voynich solutions, at least the pre ChatGPT ones. Along with rarely addressing the unlanguagelike behaviour of Voynichese, their translations are often a syntax-free jumble of words that don't resemble contemporary texts of the chosen dialect or language.
And here's the problem: if we accepted it's fine for a solution to to look like such a word salad and if we also accepted there's no need to explain the behaviour of Voynichese, we are left with hundreds of incompatible solutions that we can't pick between. We'd accept your solution today, then Cheshire's tomorrow, a Latin one for Sunday, Middle English for Monday, then maybe it would be the Turkish solution's turn.
I'm not going to read a 500 page document for a solution that is probably - from initial appearances - no different from all the hundreds of solutions that are out there, many of which have been posted on the forum. I've read extensively through a lot of these in the past but I fear I've reached my limit.
If you want to stand out from the crowd, you could try outlining how your solution deals with the entropy problem of Voynichese and the line pattern problems (line start behaviour, line end behaviour, top row behaviour etc).
(2 hours ago)Kendiyas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Professor, this forum is as serious and scientific as it gets for the voynich manuscript discussions. Certainly more serious than facebook.
Yes, every time I've been to that facebook group, it's seemed full of people posting mutually incompatible solutions. Not quite a bastion of scientific rigour.
And I know it's confirmation bias causing them to downplay the parallels, but it still baffles me how they can see their fellow posters being passionately committed to a wrong solution and yet never think for one moment "Oh no, am I doing the same?" -
RE: Prof. Eleonora Matarrese * Nymðe - The Unearthing
RobGea > 2 hours ago
(3 hours ago)eleonoramatarrese Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However, in Cod. Monacensis 337, last folio, right column, you’ll find some VM characters and their Latin equivalent.
Also in A. Cappelli. Dizionario di Abbreviature Latine, you'll find some VM characters and their Latin equivalent.
Re, "Cod. Monacensis 337", do you have a reference for that, i cannot seem to find it.