Mark Knowles > 25-08-2022, 12:50 PM
bi3mw > 25-08-2022, 01:28 PM
(25-08-2022, 12:50 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't want my research at this time to be distracted by getting embroiled in a discussion/argument of why I think my theory is correct as this will take my time and energy from my continuing research developing this theory.Well, any more or less complete publication of a theory is very likely to lead to a critical discussion. Such a discussion is not necessarily negative but can, in the best case, substantially advance a research. New questions can open up or other points of view can flow into the research that would perhaps not develop during the work on its own.
RobGea > 25-08-2022, 09:17 PM
tavie > 25-08-2022, 10:10 PM
(25-08-2022, 12:50 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I want to establish that I am the first to present this theory.
Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 12:00 PM
(25-08-2022, 12:50 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I want to establish that I am the first to present this theory.
Quote:It seems you already You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in June 2018 on wikipediaThat is true, but I left that statement somewhere that I knew nobody would find unless they were explicitly looking for it. I felt that I ought to make a more public statement not just have one squirrelled away somewhere on the Internet. Regarding this wikipedia post, I do list most of Antonio Barbavara's brothers there(I didn't create the wikipedia page to Bishop Giovanni Barbavara just merely added information to it). It seems to be general consensus that they were all brothers, though there in some variance to be found as to the precise family relationship. If the Voynich was written by multiple authors, as has been suggested by specialists(I myself have no idea on this matter), then the idea that the Voynich was produced as a collaboration amongst brothers is not inconceivable I think.
Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 12:25 PM
(25-08-2022, 10:10 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's an interesting lead, given that the suggested author lived in the right time, in a region of previous interest, and has a family connection to someone who used cyphers.
dlandino > 26-08-2022, 12:26 PM
(25-08-2022, 12:50 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have been contemplating when I should make my theory public and there have been arguments for making it public sooner and arguments for making it later.
For:
I want it to be out there, so that there is some awareness of the theory as this could potentially be useful to other researchers in the future if for some reasons I am unable to continue my research.
I want to establish that I am the first to present this theory.
Against:
I would ideally like to present the theory once it is complete and all loose ends are tied up.
I don't want my research at this time to be distracted by getting embroiled in a discussion/argument of why I think my theory is correct as this will take my time and energy from my continuing research developing this theory.
Decision:
On balance I think, if my theory is correct, as of course I think it to be, it is important that I put it out there.
I formulated the core of this theory over 5 years ago, so it is not really a new theory, it is just a theory that I haven't shared in public until now.
I started building this theory by conducting my own detailed cartographic analysis of the Rosettes folio. I borrowed to some extent from the work on Nick Pelling on the subject. I am contemplating making this analysis public, though wary of getting involved in a long debate on the subject. This lead me to the conclusion that the bottom right hand rosette represents the Abbey of San Nazarro and Celso by the Sesia River between Milan and Turin. Given the prominence of this minor rural Abbey I suggested that the Abbot was likely to be involved in some way in the construction of the Voynich manuscript. The Abbot at the time from which the Voynich has been carbon dated was Antonio Barbavara.
I have done some research into the Abbot, although most of it cannot be found in online sources and instead is in books.
Working from the basis which Nick Pelling suggests that the Voynich was written in cipher I was keen to see if Abbot Barbavara had any knowledge or connection to the world of ciphers. It turns out that he had some connection, though at that stage I could not determine how much, to cryptography as I discovered that his brother Marcolino Barbavara had written ciphers in connection with his work as the ambassador to the Duchy of Milan to the Pope.
I decided to make a detailed study of ciphers from the time of the Voynich, which I have been working on for the last few years. In this goal I have collected a very large number of ciphers from many difficult sources both diplomatic and non-diplomatic; I believe I have collected more ciphers from this period than anyone since the 15th century. I am continually finding more and so expanding my collection. I am unable to share most of these ciphers in public as I would require permission from the archives to do so and this could come at a significant price. I have shared some links to ciphers that are already to be found online.
Whilst I have been particularly interested in Milanese diplomatic ciphers I have been thorough, and continue to be, in locating ciphers from all sources from that period. (Assuming that the Voynich is broadly European in origin I freely admit that I haven't looked into cryptography in more distant parts of the world such as China.)
On the basis of my research and the ciphers I have found the most advanced ciphers from the time of the Voynich were Milanese diplomatic ciphers. Though it is possible, as with all research that future evidence may change this picture, but one has to work with the all the evidence one can find. It is noteworthy that both Francesco Barbavara(not the older relative with the same name) and his brother Marcolino operated at the centre of the world of Milanese diplomatic ciphers. It has been a very very hard job locating Milanese ciphers of the time as the 1447 fire in Milan appears to have destroyed most of the examples of Milanese diplomatic ciphers from before that time. However I have been slowly assembling more examples and I have some lines of enquiry that I hope with time will produce more. I am particularly interested in finding Milanese diplomatic ciphers between the years 1425 and 1438. Needless to say I am also on the lookout for other examples of ciphers from the time of the Voynich and the decades before.
I think what I have found in Milanese ciphers of that time could well be consistent with what we see in the structure of the Voynich. I should add that even if the Voynich cipher is of the kind I think it might be then it will not necessarily make it is easy to decipher without a crib or what Nick Pelling calls a block-paradigm, though I don't think it impossible just very hard.
I should say I have greatly appreciated the support, encouragement and most of all the knowledge that Nick Pelling has shared with me and with others as it has really assisted me in building my collection of ciphers, which I think anyone who thinks the Voynich might be written in cipher can agree, is a worthwhile endeavour.
Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 12:33 PM
(25-08-2022, 10:10 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What I'd like to see - or at least hear described if you cannot share - would be the examples in the cyphers that you feel are consistent with Voynichese. That would be really interesting, since the only similarity identified so far seems to be the occasional usage of letters similar to Voynichese q, etc. Would you be able to give us an estimate of when you will be able talk more freely about this?When it comes to other information about my research, that I have made public, generally the best place to look is the comments that I have made on Nick Pelling's blog.
Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 12:43 PM
(25-08-2022, 10:10 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is a real pity that archives are so restrictive about their material being shared with a wider audience.This is a subject I feel quite strongly about. To me it is absolutely disgraceful that the sharing of knowledge amongst academic researchers is so restricted. I never realised this prior to engaging in this research.
RobGea > 26-08-2022, 03:48 PM
Quote:There is considerable variation in the form and contents of the rights information provided by archives and libraries, and it is not always clear who owns the rights to material. Archives do not automatically own the copyright of material in their holdings.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Donors or sellers can retain the rights for material, or they may not own the copyright of all the items they transfer to an archive.
For example, a donor may not own the copyright to letters written to them, or they may have transferred the rights to someone else, such as a publisher