Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 04:09 PM
(26-08-2022, 03:48 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.a quick google gives the basics for archive permissions:
Quote:There is considerable variation in the form and contents of the rights information provided by archives and libraries, and it is not always clear who owns the rights to material. Archives do not automatically own the copyright of material in their holdings.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Donors or sellers can retain the rights for material, or they may not own the copyright of all the items they transfer to an archive.
For example, a donor may not own the copyright to letters written to them, or they may have transferred the rights to someone else, such as a publisher
And from Kings College London "Physical vs. Intellectual Property"
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RobGea > 26-08-2022, 05:47 PM
Mark Knowles > 26-08-2022, 06:22 PM
(26-08-2022, 05:47 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anyway, the crux of your theory is how well you can produce statistically credible voynichese using a multi-crypt medieval Milanese "diplomatic" cipher.I don't know what you mean by "multi-crypt". I assume you mean "multiple encryption". I am not sure what you are implying by that term.
Quote:As an extant "Diplomatic cipher" is unlikely to be able to create voynicheseI am not suggesting a theory of how Voynichese might work would be subject to archival restrictions. However historical examples of related ciphers probably would unless manually transcribed.
then it follows you would have to modify the cipher for it to do the job,
this modification would render any copyright issues moot therefore you could post it here with impunity.
Quote:Some related comments on medieval ciphers.I am very familiar with comments like these. Through hard work and focus over a number of years I have developed quite a lot of knowledge on this subject. Most Voynich researchers have been relatively uninterested in historical cryptography at the time from which the Voynich dates; exceptions being David Scheers, Nick Pelling and Michelle Lewis. From my experiences all other Voynich researchers are fairly ignorant on the subject, which is fine, especially if you don't think the Voynich is written in cipher. Some researchers think the Voynich might be written in cipher, but has no historical basis or context and therefore efforts to locate ciphers from this time is pointless. Anyway, truth be told I have devoted a lot more time than any Voynich researchers to the topic of cryptography from the early 15th century and late 14th century, so much so that I normally find it much more profitable to engage with academics working in this area or related areas on the subject when trying to expand by knowledge of cryptography of this time, though even then in this very narrow specific area overall I think it is accurate to say I know more than anybody, if not I would be extremely happy to get in contact with someone who knows more than I do. I can't publicly share my collection of ciphers, for reasons I explained, so it is difficult to convey to you how far I have explored the subject of early 15th century cryptography; that is not to say that I cannot learn more, but probably not so much from other Voynich researchers, although I was assisted recently in identifying a letter incorrectly marked in an inventory as a Milanese cipher as being in fact written in Greek minuscule, something I have no familiarity with.
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nickpelling > 26-08-2022, 10:45 PM
Hermes777 > 27-08-2022, 12:21 AM
(26-08-2022, 12:43 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(25-08-2022, 10:10 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is a real pity that archives are so restrictive about their material being shared with a wider audience.This is a subject I feel quite strongly about. To me it is absolutely disgraceful that the sharing of knowledge amongst academic researchers is so restricted. I never realised this prior to engaging in this research.
I am not a lawyer, so I don't know on what legal basis they are entitled to do so. However it is clear that certainly all the archives that I have dealt with make it quite explicit on their websites and in writing that one needs permission from an archive to share a document in public and they may well charge a fee for doing this. Given the concensus on this amongst the archives and the opinion of other academics that I have had dealings with it most surely be the case that they legally have the write to do so.
One other Voynich researcher in the past suggested to me that there was no legal restriction on this due to the copyright having expired. However it must be another law, not copyright, that they are governed by.
Juan_Sali > 27-08-2022, 10:49 AM
(26-08-2022, 05:47 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anyway, the crux of your theory is how well you can produce statistically credible voynichese using a multi-crypt medieval Milanese "diplomatic" cipher.It will depend too on how was written the plain text before being ciphered. It is not the same to cipher: How do you do or hhoou dooo yoyoyo udddo. Using the same multi-crypt cipher, the properties of the ciphered text of the first style will be differerent from the second style.
Mark Knowles > 27-08-2022, 05:58 PM
bi3mw > 27-08-2022, 06:30 PM
Mark Knowles > 27-08-2022, 07:04 PM
(27-08-2022, 06:30 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What irritates me a little is that you refer here exclusively to encrypted correspondence. In my opinion, that is something different from (partially) encrypted manuscripts. Or is my impression wrong ?It is true I have a tendency to focus on encrypted correspondence. This is mainly because the main use of ciphers from my evidence was for the very practical purpose by states of ensuring secret communication. So the vast majority of examples of the use of ciphers appear to be by states.
bi3mw > 27-08-2022, 07:45 PM
(27-08-2022, 07:04 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Clearly there are well known examples such as the works of Giovanni Fontana.
(27-08-2022, 07:04 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However I am interested in the kind of non-diplomatic ciphers that Bischoff refers to in his paper.