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[split] The Golden Fleece and the two VM creatures
- [split] The Golden Fleece and the two VM creatures
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[split] The Golden Fleece and the two VM creatures
R. Sale > 01-10-2020, 07:46 PM
And if anyone else would care to be more precise, I propose that the composition of the VMs has an increasingly closer association with a person or persons associated with the Duchy of Burgundy, during the decades leading up to, and then specifically after c. 1435. And more specifically to Dijon which was the primary residence of the dukes until the 1440s, when the primary residence was moved to Brussels.
The information contained in the VMs reveals a high level of education and a potential familiarity with certain historical manuscripts or lost replicas.
First, the Oresme cosmos after circa 1410, starting in the Duke of Berry's Library, and hiding out for a while.
Second the de Metz connections to the cosmos and the pond scene, dated to the second quarter of the 1400s
Their common origins in Paris implies not only a possible common readership, but also a potentially common creator.
Third is the Library of Philip the Good, some time after1430.
The VMs makes use of specific details that reveal a thorough knowledge of heraldic traditions. And tied in with armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry, it reveals an intentionally disguised reference to religious history and tradition. Does the reader recognize the Genoese Gambit as an intentional construction on VMs White Aries? And this is a prime example of how VMs deception operates. It uses the alternate path of interpretation. It uses a hidden gate. The primary path of interpretation leads the investigator astray. The alternate, disguised interpretation leads to a hidden path of information that is validated by tradition relevant to this time and place.
And another potential religious reference, related to La Sainte Hostie de Dijon, connects with events of the early 1430s in that city.
This hypothesis is the summation from the discoveries of some half-dozen different investigators and their research. Each line has contained some elements connected to the Duchy of Burgundy. I am suggesting that they could all fit together. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
aStobbart > 01-10-2020, 10:51 PM
(01-10-2020, 07:46 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And another potential religious reference, related to La Sainte Hostie de Dijon, connects with events of the early 1430s in that city.
I just want to know if I got it right from reading your previous comments (see attachment)
I have not enough knowledge to judge your theoires but I can see where are you going and can appreciate the effort. Sometimes it feels like this type of analisis gets lost in the sea of theories from people "trying to crack the code"
Anyway, I will stop derayling this topic. I have a (very long) backlog of JKP's blogpost to read. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Aga Tentakulus > 01-10-2020, 11:18 PM
@ aSobbart
Reading, that is a good idea.
And there is no hint for this sign in the VM. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
-JKP- > 01-10-2020, 11:28 PM
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RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
aStobbart > 01-10-2020, 11:40 PM
I had this thingy in mind
I wonder if someone tried to match "vellus aureum" with unique words in f80r. I'd try that but we already know where simple sustitution leads -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Aga Tentakulus > 02-10-2020, 01:57 AM
What JKP shows is the only possibility.
But here too it is the green that counts, not the drawing itself.
The other thing is not. -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
R. Sale > 02-10-2020, 05:58 AM
What I refer to in mentioning the the Golden Fleece is the critter on VMs f80v. Many suggestions have been made as to its potential identity. Several sources predating my investigations have proposed that it could be a 'version' of the Golden Fleece, and I have chosen to accept those suggestions.
As with so many things in the VMs, there is no attempt to produce an accurate and easily recognizable likeness. Instead there seems to be an apparent VMs policy to use disguise and ambiguity to confuse the issue. The critter of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is only vaguely sheep-like and it faces in the opposite direction, to the right, rather than the left. However the markings that represent the 'pelt' of the fleece seem to be oriented to the left, rather than to the right. Head and tail have been flipped in order to disguise the orientation of 'the Fleece' - as one of several factors that have been combined to create ambiguity.
Further disguise and difficulty in recognition and identification have been achieved through the production of an image based on a combination of elements from disparate sources. The second source in this VMs representation, as I see it, is the Agnus Dei illustration from the Apocalypse of S Jean, BNF Fr. 13096 f. 18. Once again it is not the appearance of the illustration, it is the structure of the representation that makes the connection. The structure consists of three elements: a lamb, a cosmic boundary, and droplets of blood. The lamb is on one side of the cosmic boundary and the droplets of blood are on the other side. Other illustrations with these same elements have both the lamb and the blood inside the cosmic boundary. A second factor of shared similarity is that the cosmic boundary is composed of a cloud-band and we know that a nebuly line used in the VMs can be equated to a cloud-band and a cosmic boundary.
Of further interest, while the Apocalypse Ms. was created in Liége in 1313, it is also recorded as having been in the library of Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy (ruled 1419-1467), who also founded the Order of the Golden Fleece in 1430. So while appearances clearly are ambiguous, and relevant information difficult to obtain from a modern perspective, a person living in Burgundy in the 1430s or after could have that relevant information at hand quite easily.
The animal found in the pond scene is also interesting, if it is intended to be subtly suggestive of a Burgundy connection. The mermaid-like creature in this illustration, if interpreted as Melusine, was held to be an ancestress of the Valois lines of the late 14th and the 15th centuries. This included the Valois dukes of Berry and Burgundy during this time. [Several versions of Melusine mythology exist, the Valois version derives from the rulers of Luxembourg.] -
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs?
Linda > 02-10-2020, 05:12 PM